Elder'caps & Sneakattack

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badjabadjabadja
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Elder'caps & Sneakattack

Post by badjabadjabadja »

Type of Bug/Exploit Combat bug?
Area of Bug Exploit (be as specific as possible) Various in Hala
NPCs involved (Be as specific as possible) Elder Ettercaps
Chests involved none
Timestamp on when it happened Various time over last few weeks
Frequency of occurance always under conditions as described below

I first noticed this in the Undergroung river(?) area, where a lot of elder ettercaps spawn. Basically, I can SA them from stealth, but when they're KD'd, the SA does not seem to work. Since then Elder'caps seem to have taken a liking to me.. :-o but they always show the same behaviour:

From stealth, or if they are in combat with another PC, I can get SAs in.

When they are prone on the ground, I can't sneak them.

Surely they should be sneakable from both conditions, or completely immune?
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badjabadjabadja
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Post by badjabadjabadja »

~bumps the buggy 'cap bug report~

I'm guessing no one knows why they act this way? I'm intensely curious tho.. so am posting another update :)

They can be sneaked from Darkness as well as Stealth... sneaky buggers still won't let me slice them good when i kick em to the ground tho :(
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darkserra
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Post by darkserra »

I will investigate this... probably has something to do with the SA routine.

DS
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badjabadjabadja
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Post by badjabadjabadja »

Xanthalas wrote:Sneak attack.

Just a thought. As I've had a similiar problem on a private server I ran.

Some creatures react oddly to being knocked down. And one creature. Using a static model of I -think- one of the golem's. Started reacting wierd, when I gave them no discipline and immune to knockdown, or somethiing similiar. And what would happen. Is exactly as you described. (Invis/stealth/flanking would allow SA, but not knocking them down)

What was happening is that they weren't getting knocked down, but their animation was still acting like they were, causing alot of confusion. This may or may not be the case with the Ettercaps, but thought I might offer the theory.

Erik / Xanthalas (Rykolyn)
I did wonder if they had some imunity to KD that wasn't quite running properly.. mhmm.. I wonder if I can SA from stealth while they're KD'd :twisted:
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Idonia
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Post by Idonia »

I know very little about rogues or sneak attack in general, but afaik sneak attacks will only work if the creature's in combat with another creature, or if you catch them flat footed, so that could be why it's working when you first attack.

A quote from the Sneak Attack article on the NwNWiki:
Whenever a character makes a successful attack against an opponent who is flat-footed, cannot see them, or who is in combat with someone else, the character’s blow delivers extra damage.
I've seen you fight those ettercaps- oh you poor, epic shadowdancing ranger, you'll just have to take your time hacking at them when they're knocked down (or not knocked down as Xanthalas stated)
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Lord Droke
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Post by Lord Droke »

LOL :D
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Xanthalas
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Post by Xanthalas »

upholstery_imp wrote:I know very little about rogues or sneak attack in general, but afaik sneak attacks will only work if the creature's in combat with another creature, or if you catch them flat footed, so that could be why it's working when you first attack.
No, Knockdown in standard PnP and Bioware allows SneakAttack on prone creatures. (Ask any rogue with IKD, why they took it. They'll either lie, or tell you for sneak attack. :P
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darkserra
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Post by darkserra »

Well,

It seems the solution is to make the Eldar Etters immune to knockdown and give them True Seeing... :twisted:
-- [i]People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.[/i]
George Orwell
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badjabadjabadja
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Post by badjabadjabadja »

*returns from another session of questionable experimentings on hapless elder'caps*

Using KD, then HiPs'ing into stealth allows SA's..

KD in darkness allows SA's on the prone victim too.

& ooh! they casts lesser restoration (..& for a damned good reason) ~is impressed with the AI~


Heheh.. yup my poor PC excels at dirty low down sneaky stabby fighting.. but in a straight fight is actually fairly poor.. (unless insanely well buffed :P )
..her weapons have a distressing tendency to bounce off these etter-fiends! (TBH.. the tendency for normal Avlis spawns to DP me despite uber buffings is more distressing. ~hates ganooms~). Oh.. & I haven't got KD as a feat!


*looks up at DS's post* meh! I'll have to wail & weird them! Then blind the remainders & sneaky stabby them :twisted:
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Xanthalas
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Post by Xanthalas »

darkserra wrote:Well,

It seems the solution is to make the Eldar Etters immune to knockdown and give them True Seeing... :twisted:
Don't forget SR and Immune to Crit!
[i]I live yet do not live in me,
am waiting as my life goes by,
and die because I do not die.
- St John of the Cross.[/i]


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darkserra
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Post by darkserra »

Xanthalas wrote:
darkserra wrote:Well,

It seems the solution is to make the Eldar Etters immune to knockdown and give them True Seeing... :twisted:
Don't forget SR and Immune to Crit!
Right, forgot about those.... wanders off to make a list and fix the etters...
-- [i]People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.[/i]
George Orwell
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badjabadjabadja
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Post by badjabadjabadja »

darkserra wrote:
Xanthalas wrote:
darkserra wrote:Well,

It seems the solution is to make the Eldar Etters immune to knockdown and give them True Seeing... :twisted:
Don't forget SR and Immune to Crit!
Right, forgot about those.... wanders off to make a list and fix the etters...
meep! :shock:

~more cruel & unusual experiments~

Etter Elders fallen over in grease ~ not sneakable
Etter Elders blown over in explosion ~ not sneakable
Etter Elders entangled..? ~ they dispelled it :(
Etter Elders entangled..? ~ they resisted it :(
Etter Elders entangled in their own entangle spell.. SNEAKABLE! :D

((Eldercap preservation plea: please give them freedom!))

& honestly, I'm not complaining about their bizarre ability to fend off sneaky stabbys at their soft bits whilst they are rolling about on the floor.. but I have noted that this is an ability shared by the Iron Sword Spider.. After a number of observations am beginnning to make the following IC theories..

(1) Ironswordspiders' unusually strong legs are able to fend off attacks at their vulnerables whilst flipped over.

(2) Eldercaps are a bizarre abberation with their bellies on back-to-front.. hence when they are on their 'backs' it is only their armoured carapace that is exposed to attack.

All makes sense to me :P
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badjabadjabadja
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Post by badjabadjabadja »

bizarre theorist wrote:(2) Eldercaps are a bizarre abberation with their bellies on back-to-front.. hence when they are on their 'backs' it is only their armoured carapace that is exposed to attack.
ack! Managed to Daze one! (it must have rolled a one.. never ever manage to daze anything usually) but.. I couldn't then sneak it.. so I think that blows Bizarre Theorum #2 outa the water..

Eldercaps entangled in their own enchantments & prone in their own grease (euwe!) sneakable!

Yeah I know I going on here.. but they bugging me!

A quick re-cap:

Sneakable from: Stealth, Darkness, Entangled
Not from: KD, prone in grease, Dazed

New theory: things jus ain't the same on the outer planes ;)
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p0m
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Post by p0m »

They have a certain bioware special feat. It's not a bug, it's due to the amount of eyes in their head.
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