weapons that do 2 types of damage

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sinn
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weapons that do 2 types of damage

Post by sinn » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:38 pm

While IG the other day I noticed something I thought it might be a bug.

While using a halberd (slashing AND piercing) no damage was going through to a monster I assume has slashing immunity. Since somebody with daggers (piercing) was damaging them with no problem.

Switched to a morning star (bludgeoning and piercing) still no damage.

Switched to a spear (piercing) and damage was finally going through.

I thought with 1.69 or something this was fixed?

All 3 weapons had +5 GMW cast on them FYI.

Thanks!
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Gregpooh
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Post by Gregpooh » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:44 pm

Yeah, :( Dual damage types is supposed to be an advantage, but in NWN it doesn't work that way. If someone has resitance to either type of damage their resistance will work. It should only work if the person is resistant to both types of damage. Unfortunately, I'm not sure anything can be done about it. I believe it's hard-coded into the game. I could be mistaken, of course.
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Xanthalas
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Post by Xanthalas » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:17 pm

(Disclaimer, this is by memory, I could be wrong.)

Halberd, Morning-stars or creature weapons are coded to be affected by the LOWER of resistance/immunity.

Before version 1.69, the higher resistance affected the damage, not the lower one and before version 1.66, the higher immunity affected the damage, not the lower one.

The case you specify may be due to a monster that had bludgeon and slashing resistance? Did you happen to notice the numbers of resistance in the server window? (With any/all of the weapons?)

And yes, it is hard coded if I recall. Though it has been changed over the years. (As noted above.)

+5 GMW wouldn't necessarily do anything, as that's for overcoming damage reduction not resistance/immunity. Though it does aid in overcoming resistances. (Via the added damage)
[i]I live yet do not live in me,
am waiting as my life goes by,
and die because I do not die.
- St John of the Cross.[/i]


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NWDuneAuron
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Post by NWDuneAuron » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:50 pm

What Xan said is essentially true. It's possible we have an old file in the server override or something that's breaking the fix that was in 1.69.

Gregpooh
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Post by Gregpooh » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:53 pm

Easy to test, put an archer's belt on someone and whack them with a morning star ;)

But seriously, if a person only has one type of DR (in the above case, piercing) then the weapon should do full damage, right?

I know something's not right in the underground river because the creatures that should be vulnerable to piercing and resistant to everything else are practically unhurt by morning stars. Maybe its the combination of vulnerabilities with damage immunity that is causing unexpected behavior. Did they update the vulnerabilities or only the resistances? Does anyone know?
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Post by Xanthalas » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:05 pm

The resistances in that area are calculated against morningstars as if they were bludgeon. That's what the above change is mentioning, If they had only 5 resistance to piercing, (Instead of none.) They would take more damage from the dual-damage type weapons, It's a strange anomaly about the way it's coded.

Both Resistance and Immunities act the same in which the lowest one applies, but having NO resistance/immunity, doesn't count. What was intended or expected is another story entirely.

So if a creature has 10 bludgeon resistance and 15 slashing, Attacks with a morning star will be -10.

A spear would do normal damage.
[i]I live yet do not live in me,
am waiting as my life goes by,
and die because I do not die.
- St John of the Cross.[/i]


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sinn
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Post by sinn » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:20 pm

seems a few of you all ready know of this area :) thanks for the input. It didnt seem to work correct that's why I posted it. Glad the team is aware of this .. if its a bug or not it does not matter to much to ME personally. Ash is 'KRAFTY! '
[i]"Zee cabbage does not run away from zee corn-beef."[/i]

Xanthalas
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Post by Xanthalas » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:27 pm

NWDuneAuron wrote:What Xan said is essentially true. It's possible we have an old file in the server override or something that's breaking the fix that was in 1.69.
I have yet to test this on the server. And as stated, it depends on what he was fighting.

However I did test in single player. Ash's Morning-star should have done normal damage. I set up a test module that had a combat-dummy with the following resistances.

Code: Select all

(Bludgeon / Pierce / Slashing )
B/P/S

0/0/0
5/5/5
5/0/0
0/5/0
0/0/5
5/5/0
5/0/5
0/5/5
Setting up a 10 STR fighter, with 3 attacks, No weapon foci or specializations, using no equipment but basic weapon. A morning-star weapon had the following results.

Code: Select all

Morning-Star   
1d8 Bludgeon/Pierce Damage, 
20/x2 Critical.

B/P/S

0/0/0 -Normal Damage
5/5/5 -Resisted 5 damage from each blow
5/0/0 -Normal Damage
0/5/0 -Normal Damage
0/0/5 -Normal Damage
5/5/0 -Resisted 5 damage from each blow
5/0/5 -Normal Damage
0/5/5 -Normal Damage
For comparison, I used a trident. Same damage potential, but is Piercing only.

Code: Select all

Trident   
1d8 Pierce Damage, 
20/x2 Critical.

B/P/S

0/0/0 -Normal Damage
5/5/5 -Resisted 5 damage from each blow
5/0/0 -Normal Damage
0/5/0 -Resisted 5 damage from each blow
0/0/5 -Normal Damage
5/5/0 -Resisted 5 damage from each blow
5/0/5 -Normal Damage
0/5/5 -Resisted 5 damage from each blow
This is as expected, without testing this on the server or knowing exactly the situation of the area and the creatures abilities, I can not say if the server has a override affecting it or not.
[i]I live yet do not live in me,
am waiting as my life goes by,
and die because I do not die.
- St John of the Cross.[/i]


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Gregpooh
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Post by Gregpooh » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:59 pm

That's a good test, thanks. It looks like Damage resistance is working correctly.

Can you run something similar with Damage immunity, maybe set up for 0% 50% 100% immunity from each and see what happens? Might also want to check damage vulnerability. I have a feeling the problems Sinn ran into were from one of those two abilities rather than damage reduction. Just a hunch.

Thanks.

ps, Only do this if you're really aching to satisfy your own curiosity. :wink:
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Xanthalas
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Post by Xanthalas » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:10 am

Not only am I curious, but I often run into bouts of spare time where this kind of thing provides good "time-consumption" so I'll see what I come up with.
[i]I live yet do not live in me,
am waiting as my life goes by,
and die because I do not die.
- St John of the Cross.[/i]


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