Plots... storylines and having more than one character....

Talks that may or may not have anything to do with Hala or NWN

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bidocks
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Plots... storylines and having more than one character....

Post by bidocks » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:32 pm

I know the rules about not having more than one character in a plot. No problem there. I completely understand the ramifications of that and all.

I have a different issue to discuss, and please, keep in mind, I am not pointing fingers or laying blame, but.... something that bothered me so I needed to speak up.

Also, I am aware that I am somewhat of a "newbie" to Hala still, between taking breaks and whatnot. Still, it bears saying.

This latest plot by Sinn is really the only true plot I've experienced on Hala in all my time here. What I mean is, for the first time, only one pc is allowed in. I was sort of involved in others, but... was never told only one pc, so I assumed it was just a "storyline" of the server and went with it.

This time is different however, and if it were only a week or two story, I wouldn't even mention it. Buuuuut, this is supposed to last 3-5 months.

So here goes....

I showed up for a Defender's meeting a few weeks ago as Vicky (not even a member, but, goes along sometimes). All was going well, some others showed up, including Yana. I mention her only for one reason: Yana is not in the current plot, a different Jalya creation is. Just before things got going, someone pointed out a clue (obviously part of Sinn's plot) and Jalya found a reason for Yana to leave being that she is not in the plot.

I have an issue with this even if Jalya doesn't. MY character is not even a Defender yet could stay because (at the time) she was part of the "plot" that has nothing to do with a Defender Meeting. Yet.... a MEMBER of the Defender's had to leave because their character was not involved in the plot? Seems very wrong to me. Either the Defender's meetings need to stay out of the plot, or.... well, I dunno, but something has to give.

I switched Vicky out of the plot, and inserted Simi, whom, I decided to give up on (I think).

Today, I asked if there would be a Defender's Meeting, and was told that since the plotline was running too, that the Defender's Meeting would get brought together with the plot.

Ok, so my character is out.

It may simply be my perception or my inability to stick to only one character, but... are plots not intended as a way to include the playerbase in something?

The way this is going... it's becoming exclusive, rather than inclusive. Again, not laying blame here as I don't think it's anyone's fault, per se... just the way things work sometimes.

In all honesty, Vicky would completely be involved in this, as she takes interest in the happenings of Hala/Ysgard.... however, since she is not the pc I included in the plot, she has to find some IC way to NOT get involved? Seems backwards.

Anyway.... just my thoughts. Feel free to blast me as you see fit :D .

-B

silverdragonams
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Post by silverdragonams » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:58 pm

are plots not intended as a way to include the playerbase in something?
Playerbase is the operative word here, not characters.

So, lets say my cleric and Jalya are involved in the plot and we find an arcane book as a clue. I take the book to Twiggs, and Twiggs shows Sara. Four characters are involved, but only two players.

It sounds ridiculous, but it has happened. We want to encourage players to bring other players not already involved into a plot so as many people get included as possible. This also helps people avoid metagaming and confusing what information each character knows.
Characters:
[url=http://wiki.ysgard.org/index.php?title=Sarakin_Fyne]Sarakin Fyne[/url]

www.anotherworlddesign.etsy.com

bidocks
Knight of the Holy Church of Big Mouths
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Post by bidocks » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:03 pm

Silver,

I get that.... my point was more about guilds being involved in plots, and thereby excluding some of their own members from guild activity due to them not being in the plot..... don't know the answer to it, but.... something to think about.

I know the easy answer, and battle with doing this myself: Play one character.... only play one character. Life is simpler that way.

I try..... and I may finally have gotten to only one, of course, I removed her from the current plot though :roll:

-B

silverdragonams
Head DM
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Post by silverdragonams » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:30 pm

First off, its up to the player which character to involve, and like any choice there are consequences.

Second, a player can always ask the DM if they can switch to another character. If Jal was truly unhappy with the Defender's situation I'm sure Sinn would let her switch her involvement from Twiggs to Yana as long as it doesn't disrupt the plot. He's a nice guy like that.
Characters:
[url=http://wiki.ysgard.org/index.php?title=Sarakin_Fyne]Sarakin Fyne[/url]

www.anotherworlddesign.etsy.com

_JM_
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Post by _JM_ » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:58 pm

I don’t see what is wrong with the “ridiculous” example. It would have made more IC sense for Jayem to talk things over with Egil and Alexis or to have had their aid when he searched Jotunheim than it did for him to have to avoid the subject and to go there alone. There would be no confusion in what each character knows as if they had found anything then Jayem would have told Gildan and Soleis, just as he told them of his lack of success when he searched alone.

I can think of only two people I see regularly who are not involved in Sinn’s plot as one character or another and one of those it would not make much sense for them to become involved as the character is Arkaz based. So as far as I am concerned it is not a choice between getting more people involved or not, it is between characters having to ignore things they’d ICly be concerned with or not. But it is not a choice as Sinn wants only one character per player involved and his plot his rules.

But I Ain't Got Wings
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Post by But I Ain't Got Wings » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:45 pm

As the DM running this plot.

1- I allowed Vicky to switch characters because what they had done was nothing really that influenced this plot.

2- I am fine with Jay talking to Lexy or Egil about the plot, even though they can not take part in the actual events.

3- As DM I am responsible as for what information I give out in this plot. IF said Lexy and Egil will travel with Jay to Jotunheim to look for clues. Only Jay would be allowed to act upon them because he is involved with the plot. And as DM I would not give information to Egil or Lexy about this plot, since they have OTHER characters involved in the plot. NOTE- IF some of the hints and clues, and flavor I am putting in the mod for players to find while I am NOT Dming, is making this confusing I can stop this.

4- MY PLOT IS NOT A GUILD PLOT. It is open to everyone from everywhere. The timing of my DM events happens to be similar to Defender Guild meetings. But the rules that you can only have ONE character in the plot stand. If you would rather not attend the meeting then fine. If all of the defenders would rather NOT attend the event that is fine too. But as a DM I set my own times.... as you all set your own play times.

5- I think we all are enjoying this plot so far. There is no need to argue about rules. They are what they are. Everyone is welcome in the plot, EACH player is. But the rules are one character per player. Simple.

6- Once again--- IF my attempt to make the world (ysgard/hala) more real by putting stuff in the mod while I am not DMing is making this an issue I can stop. It is actually a lot of work, but I am attempting to tell a story that spans play times, and servers.

7-anyone is welcome to PM me about this ANYTIME

bidocks
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Post by bidocks » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:32 am

Hey folks, I never meant to question Sinn's rule, which is actually a server rule anyway. I also didnt intend for it to be a less than pleasant discussion. I am sorry it did. I had merely noticed something that troubled me and wanted the powers that be to look at it. I, personally made the choice to remove Vicky, and subsequently made the choice to put her back :), with the help and tolerance of DM Sinn, of course. For me, it makes sense for her to be involved at least for many of the reasons JM gave.

Thanks peoples!

_JM_
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Post by _JM_ » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:40 am

I was not suggesting that you would have given Egil or Alexis any information. Just that if those characters are not involved and are forbidden from being involved and that assistance or advice seemed to count as involvement. Jayem does not have to talk to Alexis or Egil about this plot as Garthond took the opportunity of a Tower of Iron Will meeting to do this and the opportunity of a Defenders meeting to talk to Gildan and Soleis about the same things.

It is not a guild plot, but the point bciphoto seemed to be making was that if most of a guild is involved in a plot then it makes IC sense for the rest of a guild to be involved. So it seemed the wrong way around for the guild member to have to leave and the non-member to be able to stay. Which was a concern worth raising even if you have confirmed that the rule stands.

Your work in adding and modifying the clues is appreciated and was duly raved.

Moonyju
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Location: *points up* That's Yana and Zunya (GMT-5/-4)

Post by Moonyju » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:00 am

To precise:

The meeting bidocks is referring to with Yana finding a reason to "leave" as the group found one of Sinn's clues was ~my~ own decision. No one asked me to have Yana step away. If memory serves, this is the meeting when Tris and Yana only popped in White Wood to warn the Defenders Yana would not be at the meeting as they decided to go to Arkaz that day. The group just happened to notice something in the village while we were still there. And so I, as a player, used the "... sorry folks, but we have to be on our way" excuse to step away and avoid the "plot talk". :)

The plot sorta started with something strange happening in Pel, which is Twigs' home. So I chose to use Twigs in the plot. It just so happens that Sinn, as he says, holds his events during Defenders meetings, or close to meeting time, is all. And it just so happens that, this time around, most Defenders are in the plot. This is why Yana is not usually going to the meetings lately, but Twigs (generally) is -- it makes more sense, especially if there is to be an event later, to have Twigs show up for the meetings so that she can discuss the findings with other characters involved in the plot. :) It's tricky, but that's the way things are. :) It's a choice I made. No one would tell Yana NOT to show up at the meetings because she's not involved in the plot. And they wouldn't avoid talking about it during the meetings if she were there. I simply choose to take Twigs there instead so she can discuss things with them, is all. As _JM_ said, I see bidocks' point and it's a valid concern. But it's my own darn decision to have Yana out of this plot and Twigs in. :D

As was said, this is not a Defenders' plot, although it's easy to assume it is. It so happens that most members are involved and events are during their meetings. That's all there is to it. Also! Defenders meetings are generally open to anyone who want to join us (otherwise, they wouldn't let Twigs, Jayem, Garthond and others to come with! and more importantly, they wouldn't meet at the rock ~outside~ their hall, in the middle of the village). :)

Also, I always assumed there was only 1 pc/player allowed in a plot (ANY plot) for the same reason Hala (and CoPaP as a whole) states that PCs played by the same player CAN NOT know each other. You can only play 1 PC at a time (unless you cheat! ;) ) and so they can't pass information down to each other, unless they use a middle man. *shrugs*

Game on! 8)

Oh! Also, just to note... as Sinn said, it's OK for your other PCs to hear about what's going on. It's not because someone is not involved that they are completely oblivious to strange happenings. For instance, the first event (or second?) saw an attack on South Camp, where most of the inhabitants died or were injured. South Camp being where Yana grew up and where her father still lives, there was no way she wouldn't rush over there to check on her father and help as soon as she heard about it. However, that doesn't mean she's my main PC involved in the plot.

Game on.. again! :D

bidocks
Knight of the Holy Church of Big Mouths
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Post by bidocks » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:37 pm

Ok, seems like I hit a nerve here and I apologize to any who are upset by this post.

First: Jalya, I now know it was your choice and as I said, even if it didn't bother you, it bothered me, thus, I brought it up. I also understood it to have not been your choice to leave, but were asked. Ok, that changes things a bit. You have your choice to leave as whoever, whenever you like. Plot or no plot. So... I am sorry, but it still did bring up the idea that I spoke of.

Second: Sinn, thanks for putting up with me, and the rest of us. I can't imagine how hard it must be to make up a story, plant things in the mod, and then have to listen to quibbling over things like this instead of getting to all the hard work you did. So thank you, and I'm sorry if I started something.

There you have it, I apologize. What I thought was a problem based on information I had at the time, really wasn't. It was personal choice. I'll be the last one to fight to take that away.

-B

terror2001
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Post by terror2001 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:08 pm

Why has Vicky not met Vicky?

Don't apologize for asking questions. The only bad question is the one never asked. Though, you may not like all the answers you get. The topic was a valid point for discussion and like most things it is a combination of the rules and "creative choices" for your characters.
Player of:
Vicky (Vilia the Fairy)

Moonyju
Minor DM
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Location: *points up* That's Yana and Zunya (GMT-5/-4)

Post by Moonyju » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:22 pm

You had a concern and mentioned it! We discussed!
'tis all good!
*squeezies!*
:D

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