Playing Evil

Talks that may or may not have anything to do with Hala or NWN

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Crystalactite
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Post by Crystalactite »

You could just make an on death script so when one commoner dies, powerful guards spawn around and attack the murderer.
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Post by VIpAcT »

Many 'good' players are desensitized to the slight moral dilemma's because numerous DMed events paint things black and white. At the same time, as it has been pointed out, there is a fundemental difference between "I have pledged my soul to Demons and have been seen a few times killing innocents" and playing a selfish/malevolent character.

The reason that the first is seen as stupid evil or what have you is that others servers may not "house" that concept. I have only remember one good stupid evil character and if he had played on, who would know how long he would have surived in the world. Of course, Hala has a demonic army which could possibly support demented killers. Perhaps it has already been done, but roleplay among the demons without an opposition or interrelation sort of thing among demonic army PCs and demons would make it more preferable.

I also partially disagree with the inability to do evil things in Hala. Even the good characters need DM involvement to accoplish some acts. If I was playing an evil character and a DM was on, and there was a playground of children, and my character wanted to leave a poison dagger it could happen. Only you wouldent know if it would do any good, because the DM is thinking up stuff and "rolling the die" if you will.
Asbendale
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Post by Asbendale »

Well i think ill join this post.

Fist as i see it an evil charter DONT have to go slauthering every man, woman and chield he or she comes around, there is a lot of wayes of being evil on. You can try to gain power by using other players, make small accidents happen and so on, the oppertunites is wast if the player is a littel wise.

Second i think we have a rp ploblem, we all got our names over our heads, some might be a bit quick to assume they know the name of their killer and runn tell all .......this person is evil, but how can you do that if your where killed?, You cant....you just have to pretend that you have forgotten who it was. Unless ofcorse you got his name another way.

3rd: All can see if a player is easy, moderate and so on to kill...thats in my oppinoin a big fault. I have played on servers where you coudent see how tuff the others where and it made one think twize before attacking a person. So it might be nice to get rid of it......just a thought thou

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T'Holoth Shadowborn
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Post by T'Holoth Shadowborn »

If you are one PC and you decide you are going to take on an Entire town
Someone tried thisin LeorTnanshi once. They killed all the commoners and a bunch of guards and tried to role play singel handedly taking over the while city.
Dms caught wind of it, spawned an uber guard and the guy naturally complained, said it wasnt fair, Dms are bastards etc..

With epic characters it's not a stretch of the imagination to assume theres epic guards.

Criminals and murderers being able to walk around town shortly after "being evil" is a limiation of the game engine. The guards get set back to non hostile after x turns our whatever. Not realistic (even in a game sense)
By all rights if someone commits a murder int own and the guard see them, they should be flagged hostile for a long time. Maybe until the server resets atleast. Thats only common sense. Unfortinuatly theres probably a reason why we can't set that up. Zelle argued before that the hostile guards would see through disguises and polymorphed shapes so again, another limitation.
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Post by Grimm »

I never posted capturing or taking over nagritch, I had posted that Commoners and Gaurds had been killed across town. Grimm was not alone doing it, it was Grimm and three other evils that assisted. Not that this changes anything, but was simply trying to stir up things make sure people knew this was a serious matter for grimm. Had no intention to demonstrate Grimm "had single handidly" taken over Nagritch.
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Post by Mothandric »

silverdragonams wrote:Chaotic Evil is not supposed to be subtle. I agree...slaughtering commoners is not the best way to act. But subtle doesn't work in this type of environment. If no one sees you doing evil things, then who cares? Why bother?
1. Evil is as evil thinks, not necessarily as evil does.

If you run around and play the stereo-typical mass murderer CE then basically that's ok if you want your PC to have the life expectancy of an arthritic cockroach.

However, CE can be patient, you say CE can't be subtle?

One name for you straight from the AD&D books... Grazzt.

Chaotic Evil is the alignment, not Chaotic Stupid, it is possible to play an overt evil character without getting the smackdown laid on you every time you run into someone.

The secret is don't leave proof, the Reavers are hated ICly by just about every guild there is, they know we have done some pretty nasty things along the way though hardly any of the things wehave done are public knowledge. However, even though they are not public knowledge they have still had a huge impact on the game world.

The difference here is that you are on a CG plane, which means that you will have to be even more sneaky about what you do. Let people point fingers and mutter what they think you have done, it's all just hearsay.

Stupid CE on a CG plane = Celestial Fodder

One thing to keep in mind, if you are going to play an evil PC you ARE going to lose... a lot... You have to be a good loser in order to enjoy the RP.

Playing evil is a huge responsibility to other players, you're there to add to their enjoyment and give them something other than NPC evil to work against. :)
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Post by silverdragonams »

Playing evil is a huge responsibility to other players, you're there to add to their enjoyment and give them something other than NPC evil to work against.

Which goes back to my original point. What can good players do to make the game more enjoyable for evil players? It seems pretty one sided to say it's their responsibility to make the game fun for us.
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Xanthalas
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Post by Xanthalas »

silverdragonams wrote: What can good players do to make the game more enjoyable for evil players?.
Go along with being decieved and lied to is one thing. On another server I have a CN character thats making his way to any Good align and he just sold his soul to a LE charactor. It has made for a lot of good RP and discussion IC and been fun. Though if you ask the said soulless char he is not so happy about it. It may be pretty obvious to the player that he is being lied to or recieveing evil intent. But would the Char be? Xai may have been recently outlandishly lied to and all he did was continue to be the same old Xai. offering help and such. The reason why is that Xai's wish to help may have blinded him. Now in no way did he put himself in danger's way. As he is not stupid. but he did leave a tiny bit of an opening for more RP if this evil char decides. That helps too.

just an opinion though.
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Post by Anniko »

T'Holoth Shadowborn wrote:Someone tried thisin LeorTnanshi once. They killed all the commoners and a bunch of guards and tried to role play singel handedly taking over the while city.
That didnt happen, what happened was a few ebony mages came in, killed a few guards and some commoners in the marketplace and ran, the people who saw them said they took over the city, killed everyone etc etc

Just a major fuckup on the witnesses part
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Gairus
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Post by Gairus »

Actually it did.

His name was Lord Silver and he was hilarious :)

He is also why Aloro made the damn guards, but we digress...
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Post by ApproachingWinter »

Xanthalas wrote:On another server I have a CN character thats making his way to any Good align and he just sold his soul to a LE charactor.
My character! It's really amazing the amount of wonderful things you can do with another characters soul in the Abyss. :twisted:
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Post by Xanthalas »

ApproachingWinter wrote:
Xanthalas wrote:On another server I have a CN character thats making his way to any Good align and he just sold his soul to a LE charactor.
My character! It's really amazing the amount of wonderful things you can do with another characters soul in the Abyss. :twisted:
Especially when they joke with deletion. :twisted: :lol: :D :P :twisted:
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Post by Void Hamlet »

Eh, don't you bring a vast off-topic here, guys. :shock:
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Post by Xanthalas »

Just another opinion.

Alot of the problem also stems from what some people consider evil. Take for example a Paladin.. Lets say he fights in some holy war versus another country. Well this other country has its own Paladin. Lets say one is a Paladin of Torm the other a Paladin of for words sake we will say Helm. Now both good based.. both chars are LG but some would argue killing another is an evil act.. right? But its in defense.. so its not considered a HUGE evil act.. and there is the chance at capture and mercy or conversion and such. That would be a good act as judged by some and as treason and evil by another. But now lets take two bandits... one an evil bandit mage the other an evil bandit cleric of bane. Now lets say the mage bested the cleric... but lets him live. Is that mercy to be considered a good action? of course not.. He is probably going to hold it over the Baanite's head. And has a hidden agenda about it. Basically sometimes the action itself is evil but not the intent.. and vice versa.. sometimes the action itself is good but not the intent. Right? So maybe some evil characters. ((Doesnt matter if LE or CE or NE)) Should realize that being evil sometimes seems outragously good. After all some of the most evil people in lore and legend and even history. appeared to be good. ((the proverbial devil appearing as an angel.)) There is too many ways in and out of the whole ordeal. Personally if you ask me. I feel Good characters should be harder to play. as its the harder road to walk.. Doing whats right all the time and being moral and virtous. Neutrality seems to be a little easier to play. You can be a good guy but every once in a while do something either for personal gain or even just as an accident. Most chars I play are CN or LN because of that. But to each their own.
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Post by Gladenfar »

Why do people have to know you're evil?
Right on.
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Post by Sable »

Xanthalas wrote:Just another opinion.

Alot of the problem also stems from what some people consider evil. Take for example a Paladin.. Lets say he fights in some holy war versus another country. Well this other country has its own Paladin. Lets say one is a Paladin of Torm the other a Paladin of for words sake we will say Helm. Now both good based.. both chars are LG but some would argue killing another is an evil act.. right? But its in defense.. so its not considered a HUGE evil act.. and there is the chance at capture and mercy or conversion and such. That would be a good act as judged by some and as treason and evil by another. But now lets take two bandits... one an evil bandit mage the other an evil bandit cleric of bane. Now lets say the mage bested the cleric... but lets him live. Is that mercy to be considered a good action? of course not.. He is probably going to hold it over the Baanite's head. And has a hidden agenda about it. Basically sometimes the action itself is evil but not the intent.. and vice versa.. sometimes the action itself is good but not the intent. Right? So maybe some evil characters. ((Doesnt matter if LE or CE or NE)) Should realize that being evil sometimes seems outragously good. After all some of the most evil people in lore and legend and even history. appeared to be good. ((the proverbial devil appearing as an angel.)) There is too many ways in and out of the whole ordeal. Personally if you ask me. I feel Good characters should be harder to play. as its the harder road to walk.. Doing whats right all the time and being moral and virtous. Neutrality seems to be a little easier to play. You can be a good guy but every once in a while do something either for personal gain or even just as an accident. Most chars I play are CN or LN because of that. But to each their own.
In RL good and evil are subjective. This is not the case in D&D. They are "alignments" in the very literal meaning of the word, they are not perspectives.
Like them or not, they are the very basis of the game, so you can not change them without changing the game itself at a fundamental level.
"Abash'd the Devil stood, And felt how awful goodness is, and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely” John Milton
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Post by T'Holoth Shadowborn »

In RL good and evil are subjective. This is not the case in D&D. They are "alignments" in the very literal meaning of the word, they are not perspectives.
Like them or not, they are the very basis of the game, so you can not change them without changing the game itself at a fundamental level.
Great point.
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Post by Xanthalas »

Sable wrote:In RL good and evil are subjective. This is not the case in D&D. They are "alignments" in the very literal meaning of the word, they are not perspectives.
Like them or not, they are the very basis of the game, so you can not change them without changing the game itself at a fundamental level.
Thats kinda what I meant to say actually but that does bring up a question of mine.

But isnt thats the problem? the very words have failings in the definitive soloutioun according to english confines. Unless you refer to the DnD precepts in which case ((and my english isnt great so correct me if wrong)) Neutrality is the majority and any varience is considered extremism and or zealousness. ((IE most people would be neutral something. neutral good evil lawful or chaotic. rare to have non neutrality)) Which does make sense. But please correct me as I have always been a little confused of this.
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Post by silverdragonams »

But isnt thats the problem? the very words have failings in the definitive soloutioun according to english confines. Unless you refer to the DnD precepts in which case ((and my english isnt great so correct me if wrong)) Neutrality is the majority and any varience is considered extremism and or zealousness. ((IE most people would be neutral something. neutral good evil lawful or chaotic. rare to have non neutrality)) Which does make sense. But please correct me as I have always been a little confused of this.
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Post by Crystalactite »

silverdragonams wrote: *reads*
*thinks*
*Brain-hamster seizes up and falls off the wheel*
*goes back to her own little world*

:P

Oh no! Teh brian hamstar ;o;!
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Post by Sable »

Xanthalas wrote:
Sable wrote:In RL good and evil are subjective. This is not the case in D&D. They are "alignments" in the very literal meaning of the word, they are not perspectives.
Like them or not, they are the very basis of the game, so you can not change them without changing the game itself at a fundamental level.
Thats kinda what I meant to say actually but that does bring up a question of mine.

But isnt thats the problem? the very words have failings in the definitive soloutioun according to english confines. Unless you refer to the DnD precepts in which case ((and my english isnt great so correct me if wrong)) Neutrality is the majority and any varience is considered extremism and or zealousness. ((IE most people would be neutral something. neutral good evil lawful or chaotic. rare to have non neutrality)) Which does make sense. But please correct me as I have always been a little confused of this.
By the definition of alignments as laid out in D&D, yes, most humans are neutral (either lawful or chaotic). This doesn't necessarily mean they do both good and evil (though that can certainly be true), as this is a common and age old misconception of the alignment. What it means is, they do not go out of their way to do either. Yes neutral can mean that you actively pursue the goals of “neutrality” or “balance”, but these are the rare exception (and are more often than not, true neutral). And yes, you are correct, Good and Evil are meant to be extremes and rare (though common amongst adventurer’s, but then, adventurer’s are meant to be a rare breed in themselves). They are the people that actively go out and pursue the aims and goals of Good or Evil, be that in day to day life or in some more grand method.

Please note however, this is the view from the point of D&D, not necessarily Hala. For that, you will obviously need to look to the Hala team
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T'Holoth Shadowborn
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Post by T'Holoth Shadowborn »

If your going to
a. openly act evil (or contrary to the attitudes of the majority of people present) or if your good, act 'good' surrounded by evil characters
b. start arguments with people higher level than you, or a guild/group
c. piss people off through your role playing
d. go out of your way to butt heads with someone dramatically opposed to your alignment/philisophy

be ready to back up your actions IC and not try and hide behide absurd accusations and comments.

-Your just a powergamer
-your part of that hala old boys club
-your just harassing me because im a lower level
-if you attack me im telling the staff

You reap what you sow.

Higher level characters can only come up with so many ways to avoid CvC before it starts to become cheesing.
[Not imlying anyone from the demon army guild at all here either]

As for alignments, i know theres always an argument about it on every RP world you go.
People try and use modern day ethics and always argue the finer points. The D&D system isn't perfect. It's made to be black and white.
Hero's vs Villans with an assortment of people inbetween. (I know, im one of thw worst ones for mixing modern day values heh)
Last edited by T'Holoth Shadowborn on Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Xanthalas »

Sable wrote:What it means is, they do not go out of their way to do either. Yes neutral can mean that you actively pursue the goals of “neutrality” or “balance”, but these are the rare exception (and are more often than not, true neutral). And yes, you are correct, Good and Evil are meant to be extremes and rare (though common amongst adventurer’s, but then, adventurer’s are meant to be a rare breed in themselves). They are the people that actively go out and pursue the aims and goals of Good or Evil, be that in day to day life or in some more grand method.
Thank you. That was clarifying. ((I sometimes forget in some RPG's that you are considerered a hero or rare person. especially with so many of us around.))
Thanks Sable for clearing that bit of confusion up for me. ((years of RP and still learning something new every day eh?))
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Post by Sable »

yup, 25 years so far and counting... and not a game goes by without someone teaching me something new ;)

...its what keeps me interested in the hobby :D
"Abash'd the Devil stood, And felt how awful goodness is, and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely” John Milton
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Post by slave_of_emotions »

Arkon, what you and some other DMs forgot is that Ysgard is not only a GOOD plane but CHAOTIC as well. conflicts dont exist only between good and evill but as well between caos and law, thats what the mystara settign is about, that what the whole Blood War is about.

As demon army was introduced, the quests to defend hala should not have been given out to the celestial army, but to local groups like the amazons, instead a power from another plane comming to hala and fighting demons it should have been a local power, perhaps even them trying to find help of the giants.

I since long dont see hala as part of Ysgard.

A big Cheers to NWDuneAuron (hope i spelled it right) that is trying to bring up real elements of Ysgard.
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