Playing Evil

[Sable]

In RL good and evil are subjective. This is not the case in D&D. They are "alignments" in the very literal meaning of the word, they are not perspectives.
Like them or not, they are the very basis of the game, so you can not change them without changing the game itself at a fundamental level.

Thats kinda what I meant to say actually but that does bring up a question of mine.

But isnt thats the problem? the very words have failings in the definitive soloutioun according to english confines. Unless you refer to the DnD precepts in which case ((and my english isnt great so correct me if wrong)) Neutrality is the majority and any varience is considered extremism and or zealousness. ((IE most people would be neutral something. neutral good evil lawful or chaotic. rare to have non neutrality)) Which does make sense. But please correct me as I have always been a little confused of this.

By the definition of alignments as laid out in D&D, yes, most humans are neutral (either lawful or chaotic). This doesn't necessarily mean they do both good and evil (though that can certainly be true), as this is a common and age old misconception of the alignment. What it means is, they do not go out of their way to do either. Yes neutral can mean that you actively pursue the goals of “neutrality” or “balance”, but these are the rare exception (and are more often than not, true neutral). And yes, you are correct, Good and Evil are meant to be extremes and rare (though common amongst adventurer’s, but then, adventurer’s are meant to be a rare breed in themselves). They are the people that actively go out and pursue the aims and goals of Good or Evil, be that in day to day life or in some more grand method.

Please note however, this is the view from the point of D&D, not necessarily Hala. For that, you will obviously need to look to the Hala team

[T'Holoth Shadowborn]

If your going to
a. openly act evil (or contrary to the attitudes of the majority of people present) or if your good, act 'good' surrounded by evil characters
b. start arguments with people higher level than you, or a guild/group
c. piss people off through your role playing
d. go out of your way to butt heads with someone dramatically opposed to your alignment/philisophy

be ready to back up your actions IC and not try and hide behide absurd accusations and comments.

-Your just a powergamer
-your part of that hala old boys club
-your just harassing me because im a lower level
-if you attack me im telling the staff

You reap what you sow.

Higher level characters can only come up with so many ways to avoid CvC before it starts to become cheesing.
[Not imlying anyone from the demon army guild at all here either]

As for alignments, i know theres always an argument about it on every RP world you go.
People try and use modern day ethics and always argue the finer points. The D&D system isn't perfect. It's made to be black and white.
Hero's vs Villans with an assortment of people inbetween. (I know, im one of thw worst ones for mixing modern day values heh)

[Xanthalas]

What it means is, they do not go out of their way to do either. Yes neutral can mean that you actively pursue the goals of “neutrality” or “balance”, but these are the rare exception (and are more often than not, true neutral). And yes, you are correct, Good and Evil are meant to be extremes and rare (though common amongst adventurer’s, but then, adventurer’s are meant to be a rare breed in themselves). They are the people that actively go out and pursue the aims and goals of Good or Evil, be that in day to day life or in some more grand method.

Thank you. That was clarifying. ((I sometimes forget in some RPG's that you are considerered a hero or rare person. especially with so many of us around.))
Thanks Sable for clearing that bit of confusion up for me. ((years of RP and still learning something new every day eh?))

[Sable]

yup, 25 years so far and counting... and not a game goes by without someone teaching me something new

...its what keeps me interested in the hobby

[slave_of_emotions]

Arkon, what you and some other DMs forgot is that Ysgard is not only a GOOD plane but CHAOTIC as well. conflicts dont exist only between good and evill but as well between caos and law, thats what the mystara settign is about, that what the whole Blood War is about.

As demon army was introduced, the quests to defend hala should not have been given out to the celestial army, but to local groups like the amazons, instead a power from another plane comming to hala and fighting demons it should have been a local power, perhaps even them trying to find help of the giants.

I since long dont see hala as part of Ysgard.

A big Cheers to NWDuneAuron (hope i spelled it right) that is trying to bring up real elements of Ysgard.

[Sable]

much of the recent events are centered around bringing out a more ysgard feel (as Arkon mentioned recently). I think that statement alone was an admission that some of the events up to that point had missed out on their ysgard feel. Jumping on that point now seems somewhat belated and redundant.

[T'Holoth Shadowborn]

I wouldn't really suggest Arkon or the other DMs are forgetting that. I'm willing to bet theres a lot of work going on behind the sceens that you are unaware of. When you buy a car you usually don't go to the factory and see how it's put together. You jump into it and go. have faith in the staff, many of whom are relitively new to the team.

The Celestial and Demon armies were introduced to Hala a long time ago. Over a year. Celestials or Demons are not native to the plane of hala your right. The Celestials are long time enemies of the demons. With the demons trying to get into hala, it only stands to reason IC wise, the celestials would come to hala too to try and stop them.

For a long time their were no real active groups in hala which created a bit of a void. Now were starting to see those guilds becomming more active and more involved in current plots.

As for trying to find help from the giants. If you reard up on ysgardian mytholoth i think you'll find that giants aren't too friendly.

[micah ormane]

Evil is about two big things for me. It's either about presence, or subterfuge. How you go about doing either is up to you, and that's the true challenge for the player. Both of these can be accomplished without rampant murdering/griefing/cheesing, and you can still come out of it with whatever reputation you desire (The abberant hero, the cruel murderer, the untouchable and undetectable assassin, etc... etc...). You simply have to be willing to work at it, and constantly improve your RP. The more you try to be clever about your evilness, the more fun you and other players are going to have with it.

In a place like Ysgard, it makes sense that there should be few evil people around, and that they should have a rough time. This gives the evil, imho, an opportunity to truly shine. The CE bastard public murderer isn't going to survive long in a place with few laws that is known for the militantness and general goodness of the petitioners. He's going to have to adapt to survive, and be clever how he goes about serving himself. It's a real challenge, and a rich one to undertake.

[T'Holoth Shadowborn]

In my opinion, LE, NE and even CE types would simply kill mass murderers. Why? Self survival. Whats to stop the murderer from killing said character? Nothing. If hes going to kill children why wouldnt he kill and rob you (a LE guy) of everything you own?

LG would bring a murderer to court, CE would kill them to protect themselves.

[Crystalactite]

You just have to remember a lawful evil may help a lawful good character if there's a way to benefit from it. This is more often than not a case of removing competition -.^

[Psye Shaar]

They could always just finish every encounter with -

Mwa ha, mwa ha ha, MWA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

You'd definitely know they were evil then

[micah ormane]

The importance of the evil monologue can not be stressed enough.

And evil one liners.

[ApproachingWinter]

The biggest obstacle any "subtle" evil character has on Hala is the Detect Evil feat that the paladins get....hate that ability.

[Fredegar]

*whistles* Please help out your local bards! See my post on the Undectable alignment spell for bards under Feedback! We cry for aid!

[Sable]

The biggest obstacle any "subtle" evil character has on Hala is the Detect Evil feat that the paladins get....hate that ability.

Personally, I can't see why. I'm prolly one of the most Detect Evil happy players out there and I've never used it (to my memory) on anyone that wasn't blatent abotu being evil first (summoning undead etc being the big give away ).

Evil asks that others RP fear etc because they are evil. This is fair enough. By the same token however, is it not equally fair that the player of the subtle evil character also RP fear of someone that can out them? As in, avoid such a person.

Detect Evil DOES have some flaws in online gaming, these are mainly linked to misconceptions of what an evil character is (there is still some insane view out there that you can have an "Innocent" evil character in D&D ) and the inability of having a 24/7 DM coverage for each player (something that can happen for PnP). DMs monitor RP and can change a characters alignment accordingly, if that coverage can not be made, then alignments can not be as fluid as is needed with a Detect Evil ability. That said however, in 25 years of gaming I've not seen as many alignment changes in characters as I have since I started playing NWN. People do seem to be far too willing to change the very core of the being of their characters imo. Yes fluidity of character is an essential part of RP, but such life changing events should be rare. Not pointing any fingers here, this is the sum of experience gathered in playing NWN for the 2 or 3 years its been, not just Hala.

[T'Holoth Shadowborn]

The biggest obstacle any "subtle" evil character has on Hala is the Detect Evil feat that the paladins get....hate that ability

good old detect evil.

It's easy to metagame/cheese? with this. A paladin can just run around and blarg blarg blarg detect evil on everything that moves.

Arkon warned us paladins about that right away, dont be detect evil dumb or we'll loose the feat.

I try to only cast detect evil on people who stike me as evil. Summoning undead, demons, threating people, drow tieflings or other commonly evil races. People who dress in pure black with evilish voice sets, evil looking portrait (im assuming its suposed to represent how their character looks in a way). I see that and I figure this guy is trying to tell people hes evil, so I do the check. Theres people who i know are evil but ive never had any inclination that they are evil so i've never checked.

[ApproachingWinter]

I applaud you then Spartan. I hope all take your sparing use of it as an example.