Word of Faith

Talks that may or may not have anything to do with Hala or NWN

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slave_of_emotions
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Word of Faith

Post by slave_of_emotions »

I thought that this is strongly overpowered when it comes to outsiders so i looked up how this spell worked orginaly before bioware made it as they wanted. I was not able to find it and the only similar spells are word vs. chaos/law
Word of Chaos
Evocation [Chaotic, Sonic]

Level: Chaos 7, Clr 7

Components: V

Casting Time: 1 standard action

Range: 40 ft.

Area: Nonchaotic creatures in a 40-ft.- radius spread centered on you

Duration: Instantaneous

Saving Throw: None or Will negates; see text

Spell Resistance: Yes

Any nonchaotic creature within the area who hears the word of chaos suffers the following ill effects.

The effects are cumulative and concurrent. No saving throw is allowed against these effects.

Deafened: The creature is deafened for 1d4 rounds.

Stunned: The creature is stunned for 1 round.

Confused: The creature is confused, as by the confusion spell, for 1d10 minutes. This is a mind-affecting enchantment effect.

Killed: Living creatures die. Undead creatures are destroyed.

HD Effect
Equal to caster level Deafened
Up to caster level –1 Stunned, deafened
Up to caster level –5 Confused, stunned, deafened
Up to caster level –10 Killed, confused, stunned, deafened

Furthermore, if you are on your home plane when you cast this spell, nonchaotic extraplanar creatures within the area are instantly banished back to their home planes. Creatures so banished cannot return for at least 24 hours. This effect takes place regardless of whether the creatures hear the word of chaos. The banishment effect allows a Will save (at a –4 penalty) to negate.

Creatures whose HD exceed your caster level are unaffected by word of chaos.
Now here outsiders can actually make a will save (-4) against it and dont get griefed like it is currently in NWN where anyone can kill them no matter what level they are, without any geting any save and that the instant death effect even ignores death ward or shadowshild.
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Gairus
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Post by Gairus »

it's also a bit funky on an outer plane :)
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Gairus
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Post by Gairus »

also, you are turnable by clerics with the right domains.

And the spell "banishment"
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Post by Crystalactite »

Mystalja uses Psionic: Banishment.
Gairus: Banished.

:P
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Post by Gairus »

smartarse :P

The mage spell bansihment makes summons and outsiders pass a will save or die. The spell is instadeath, the power just takes you to the happy place like everyone else.
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Post by silverdragonams »

*wonders how many times she's accidently banished Tholoth instead of the bad guys*
*decides to keep the spell handy in case Sara isn't accepted into the CA* :twisted:
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slave_of_emotions
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Post by slave_of_emotions »

And yes, i just saw that psionic banishment does not have on hala a save as well.
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Post by Gairus »

That's hardly relevant. All it does is send you to a happy place :p
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Post by VIpAcT »

I think Teleri was working on some adjustments to the "banishment" spells. Not sure if he is still working on that, however.

*starts banishing people back to Avlis and Rockhome*
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Post by Final Shinryuu »

On Abyss 404, the team disabled all outsider-affecting spells and abilities, because, as the Abyss is an outer plane, and though a huge number of the residents have "outsider" ECL levels, they are native outsiders, and would not be affected by such spells in PnP.

Maybe a script could be written for Hala to make an alignment check to determine if something is banished or not?

Perhaps all outsiders with the same alignment as the plane are considered natives, and cannot be affected by outsider affecting spells and abilities on Hala?

Just a thought. I have no idea of the scripting required to do such a thing, nor am I volunteering. I doubt the Hala team would actually want to implement such a thing.
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Post by Gairus »

Not to screw myself over but come to think of it... my genasi ~should~ be an outsider on every single proposed world ;)

(Unless someone decides to build something in the plane of fire of course :p)
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Aiquandol
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Post by Aiquandol »

Here's the decision we face.

Either
A.) Keep it the way it is, where you die and can return to your corpse.
B.) Change it so you get a will save. If you fail that will save you're in banishment for a RL day.

Your choice. If we go PnP rules we need to go all the way, not just to where it suits you best.

However the alternatives based around a different check for an "outsider" would be most effective. However we'd still face the simmilar question above. Kill or banishment for 24 hours?
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Post by Kat J »

Aiquandol wrote:Here's the decision we face.

Either
A.) Keep it the way it is, where you die and can return to your corpse.
B.) Change it so you get a will save. If you fail that will save you're in banishment for a RL day.

Your choice. If we go PnP rules we need to go all the way, not just to where it suits you best.

However the alternatives based around a different check for an "outsider" would be most effective. However we'd still face the simmilar question above. Kill or banishment for 24 hours?
Why not the way it is now with a Will save as it seems rather powerful against anyone with a single outsider level. It's a death spell with no save...
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Post by Gairus »

Aiquandol wrote:...Your choice. If we go PnP rules we need to go all the way, not just to where it suits you best...
I don't see why. It's hardly a huge or unreasonable request to want to be allowed to make a saving throw. :p
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Post by Kat J »

The reason it bothers me is this...

Say the Celestial army is having a meeting, say... 10 Solars... Tholoth, Vinny, etc.

Some evil Cleric could just walk in, WoF and bam, they are all dead. No save, no nothing. They could be level 160... still no difference.
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Post by Sable »

I think I'd actually enjoy having Sulavan banished back to Celestia :)

The problem would actually come with those that don't have a set up home plane to go to.
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Post by Aiquandol »

"Some evil Cleric could just walk in, WoF and bam, they are all dead. No save, no nothing. They could be level 160... still no difference."

Right, which is why we need a system to determine if someone is an outsider or not. With that system will also come the ability to set home planes and have true banishment.

The example above will never happen (I know it can happen now) since an evil cleric couldn't have ysgard as his/her home plane.

I know that a save would be nice, but if we started delving into the code we'd prefer to not only fix it, but make it better. Word of faith should NOT kill its target when banishing it. That being said Word of Faith and other banishment spells will likely be receiving a change, but now the will save failure will be banishing the outsider to his/her home plane. It will require some portal hooking and persistent DB variables for "home grown ysgardians" but it should be possible.

Psionic banishment works in an entirely different way. It doesn't discriminate against outsiders. It just forces the target into a pocket dimesion for the spell duration. The only way to resist it is if you're actively resisting that person's will (hostile).
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Post by makeshiftwings »

Aiquandol wrote: The example above will never happen (I know it can happen now) since an evil cleric couldn't have ysgard as his/her home plane.
Doesn't anyone born in Ysgard have Ysgard as their home plane? If so, I don't see why one of the natives couldn't be evil; there are already plenty of evil things running around. All the drow clerics, for instance.


But more on topic, I think it should stay instant death but with a Will save. Locking you out of the server for 24 hours is obviously a bad idea; no player should have that power over another player.
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Post by Zombie »

Could a plot item be given to all characters 'native' to Hala so the spell overlooks them?
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Post by Kat J »

Aiquandol wrote:"Some evil Cleric could just walk in, WoF and bam, they are all dead. No save, no nothing. They could be level 160... still no difference."

Right, which is why we need a system to determine if someone is an outsider or not. With that system will also come the ability to set home planes and have true banishment.

The example above will never happen (I know it can happen now) since an evil cleric couldn't have ysgard as his/her home plane.
Erm, the spell doesn't care who casts it, only who it is cast on. So it doesn't matter if the Evil Cleric was native to Hala or not...
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Post by Aiquandol »

Yes well fortunately if we have a way to mark natives we can easily make the spell care who casts it ;). A "naturalization" item would be easiest. However, impractical. Ideally we would flag people in the database and have them changed to outsiders when they go to primes, an item can't accomplish that without having everyone in CoPaP change their WoF scripting.

This is all up in the sky still and warrents team discussion. We appreciate the feedback and are working on it.
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Post by Starslayer_D »

Outsides on their homeplain shouldn't be affected by WoF. Eg, in the abyss, you can't slay demons with it.
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