CvC and the Gentlemans Agreement

Talks that may or may not have anything to do with Hala or NWN

Moderators: Arkon, Top Team

silverdragonams
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Post by silverdragonams » Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:36 am

Glad you had fun :D I want to apologise to all involved for the guyser not dissappearing. Before, it has always gone away within a few minutes, or after being ice stormed or fireballed.

I personally hate squishing people in CvC, and I'd much rather get squished myself. Sara was never intended to be powerful.

IC'ly her philosophy is "what good does it do to kill people on a plane where they just get up again in the morning". Heckling and humiliating your opponent is so much more fun anyway.

So yeah...if I use bigby's on you, don't expect to be killed -- tickled, stink bombed, maybe even whiped :twisted: , but not killed. :)
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[url=http://wiki.ysgard.org/index.php?title=Sarakin_Fyne]Sarakin Fyne[/url]

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Asbendale
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Post by Asbendale » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:43 am

I agree that it only is to be used in combat where the mage feel that he is forced to use it to stay alive....and yes CvC is best when its fun for all who are involved...:)

One thing that would change a lot on the server is if we removed how hard peopel are vs another.....you know when you examin em and it sayes efortless, easy, moderate, challangeling, overpowering, impossibel. That would make it harder to guess ones level and would make it more fun to play CvC since you dont know how high in level the one you are fighting with is.....tryed it on another server and it was very fun....also it makes low level charters and evil charters have a chance.

Asbendale

Anniko
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Post by Anniko » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:58 am

Pssht, attack em no matter what their challenge rating is
I attack Grimm alot, his CR is impossible to me, i know he can beat me, but i still like attacking him :lol:
Ammenti Ril
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Psye Shaar
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Post by Psye Shaar » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:08 am

With the player base as it is, I can't see not being able to see the other PC's rating making all that much difference due to Hala being such a close knit community anyway...

Also, just because someones rating is impossible, doesn't mean you can't take them down.... and it's great fun when you manage it :twisted:
[i]"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction." [/i]
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Xanthalas
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Post by Xanthalas » Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:18 pm

Anniko wrote:Pssht, attack em no matter what their challenge rating is
I attack Grimm alot, his CR is impossible to me, i know he can beat me, but i still like attacking him :lol:
Your telling me. Im lucky if I survive his initial backhands. Not to mention most of my enemies I cannot even hit via attack or spell. But then again.. everyone is listed as impossible to me. So I dont know who is what anyways. ((gigglesnort))

NWDuneAuron
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Post by NWDuneAuron » Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:15 pm

Asbendale wrote:I agree that it only is to be used in combat where the mage feel that he is forced to use it to stay alive....and yes CvC is best when its fun for all who are involved...:)

One thing that would change a lot on the server is if we removed how hard peopel are vs another.....you know when you examin em and it sayes efortless, easy, moderate, challangeling, overpowering, impossibel. That would make it harder to guess ones level and would make it more fun to play CvC since you dont know how high in level the one you are fighting with is.....tryed it on another server and it was very fun....also it makes low level charters and evil charters have a chance.

Asbendale
You could... y'know... not look?

Asbendale
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Post by Asbendale » Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:30 pm

Not look...????....sure and i could just remove one of my mouse buttons...lol. What im saying is that it makes it much more exiting when you cant see how hard the other one is, and it makes the players think a littel longer before starting a fight. It also gives the low level charters and the evil charters a chance to be evil....the server i was on before it was removed bouth on players and monsteres, i think it needless to say that that cost quit a few trips to the death plane, when i had desided to take on some too strong for me....its just a thought.

Asbendale

micah ormane
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Post by micah ormane » Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:02 pm

Asbendale wrote:Not look...????....sure and i could just remove one of my mouse buttons...lol. What im saying is that it makes it much more exiting when you cant see how hard the other one is, and it makes the players think a littel longer before starting a fight. It also gives the low level charters and the evil charters a chance to be evil....the server i was on before it was removed bouth on players and monsteres, i think it needless to say that that cost quit a few trips to the death plane, when i had desided to take on some too strong for me....its just a thought.

Asbendale
Yeah, I don't scan. It's more fun to learn about a potential opponent's strengths and abilities ICly than through a character rating and a bunch of little icons. And then...as for being evil...there's alot more to being evil than being able to take anybody out. Of course, if you are clever about how you do it, level really doesn't make much of a difference after a certain point.

Arkon
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Post by Arkon » Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:32 pm

I suppose we could always look into a way of disabling the ability to right click and examine....

contemplates the possibilities
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[ArcanE]
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Post by [ArcanE] » Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:09 pm

Arkon wrote:I suppose we could always look into a way of disabling the ability to right click and examine....

contemplates the possibilities
I'd say go for it ... it really adds to the RP experience not to know newcomers strength except for the things you can see IC. Hopefully also makes people think twice too before they attack someone.
[b]Silverene Donkerkind[/b]
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NWDuneAuron
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Post by NWDuneAuron » Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:10 pm

I personally wouldn't like to see that. Examining is very useful as a DM.

[ArcanE]
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Post by [ArcanE] » Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:27 pm

NWDuneAuron wrote:I personally wouldn't like to see that. Examining is very useful as a DM.
I'm pretty sure that there is some way to only disable it for Players, or an extra option in a DMwand is able to pull alot of info too ... a little bit harder to utilise in some occations but still better than nothing :p
[b]Silverene Donkerkind[/b]
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Odin Hammersong
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Post by Odin Hammersong » Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:32 pm

NWDuneAuron has a valid point for sure. DMs use that feature to find out things like what exactly a PC is vulnerable to. :twisted:

As a player, however, I think the No-CR Hak is one of the best things to happen to NWN. I've played with this hak on 3 other servers, and it totally changed the dynamics of not only CvC but character interaction in general. As I've said before, I'm not a huge fan of CvC, and even with that in mind, the hak really helped create an atmosphere which was a bit more "realistic" as far as the social dynamics. So it doesn't just affect CvC combat, it affects everything, IMHO.

Psye has a good point though. Most anyone who has been here for very long knows who the strongest folks are. But once that hak goes in, and a little time goes by, no one can really tell anymore. Sure the core group of elite folks will always know where they stand compared to their close peeps, but for a server that can see hundreds of people pass through in a month, I think it would be worth it.

--Odin

micah ormane
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Post by micah ormane » Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:45 pm

Again I say...it's more fun to find out ICly.

Doing things this way allows characters to develop attitudes and reputations that transcend level - if Jim the cleric of Kord is a brilliant millitary tactician, a heavy drinker, and has never lost a fight...and is level 5...he still deserves all the kudos that gets involved there. Level 35 PC's are still mortal, are still fragile, and still have emotions. Uber gear and an impossible rating does not make a hero (or villain). Perserverence, good planning, and luck does.

Frankly, if my PC came across somebody she never knew, who was 20 levels higher than her, she would not give them any more leeway than somebody she never knew who was level 1. And the same goes for those she does know - if I run across a player that has earned their reputation as an evil bastard, a strong leader, or whatever, Micah will show them the respect they deserve based on her personality and their station (ex: Avlis evil holy warriors). Level and right clicking doesn't mean anything!

Aiquandol
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Post by Aiquandol » Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:46 pm

The CR does have an in character element. A seasoned warrior is going to look considerably different than someone that kills rats. Therefore, the CR can represent in character knowledge of your opponents likelyhood to school you. Getting rid of it seems a bit silly in my opinion. If we do, then characters have no way to "size up their opponent". There's only so much that can be represented with the little character graphic on the screen.

Let's take Grimm for example. In the world he's just dressed up in all red armor with a glowing red sword.

In actuality your character would see a lot more than that. Large battle scars, a crazy look in his eye, incredible strength and agility, an evil red haze surrounding him, blood all over his armor, etc. That last part is what the "impossible" CR represents.

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