CvC

Talks that may or may not have anything to do with Hala or NWN

Moderator: Top Team

Post Reply

Do you assume that everyone playing NWN on line wishes to be involved with CvC combat?

Yes
4
17%
No
19
83%
 
Total votes: 23

JD Smith
Honor Guard: Church of Pants
Posts: 1009
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:06 pm
Location: Wausau, Wisconsin, USA

CvC

Post by JD Smith »

Based on recent events ... I was just curious
A.N. Imus: Simon Colin Bernard
Victoria DeVitale: thankya
Victoria DeVitale: I need something shorter
Victoria DeVitale: Sim?
Tremayne7
Honor Guard: Church of Pants
Posts: 1484
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:08 pm
Location: Richmond, VA USA
Contact:

Post by Tremayne7 »

What is important in CvC is COMMUNICATION!

Please, please, please talk to people OOC after or before the combat. It will make for less hard feelings and then people know what to expect or you can work it out if a DM is not present.
Second Star to the Right and Straight on 'til Morning

"If life is a hankerchief, love is the embrodery that makes it more beautiful." - Alexis Dufresne Montjoie

"A Tyrite, a thief, a ranger and a preppy elf were sitting in a bar with a druidess..." -Aranel
makelovelikewar
Squire of the Holy Church of Annoyance
Posts: 76
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:13 am
Location: Lost on the Staircase.

Post by makelovelikewar »

I never assume and would prefer things hashed out (as best as can be) in tells prior to actual combat. Best to make sure.
BPanther
Knight of the Holy Church of Big Mouths
Posts: 206
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:41 am
Location: Finland GMT +2

CvC

Post by BPanther »

Outcounting Lir
no hard feels and i actually dont like being warned before. I know its nice but still it screws my play, does character more stupid than she is etc.

feel free to hunt kill cut arms do whatever you want in rp purposes.

if i get smiley after it by tell its great.

right now i get feeling evryone is on their toes because of might get griefing report, dunno maybe its just me.
<@HumbugCause> Lir's in and out more than a red light girl's regular :P
<@CoffeeDragon> Sorry Lir, I traded you to Zombie this morning for 2 cookies and a collectible digipokimonster card.
daemona
Squire of the Holy Church of Annoyance
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:01 pm

Post by daemona »

CvC can be a teams worst nightmare when not DM supervised. Log file reviews, did you set hostile first and the list goes on and on. I have been fortunate over five years of play and only been in a very few physical type of CvC. Each time I was set hostile and the player asked first. A simple tell was all it takes to make sure there is no problem on either side. Consider the persons RL as well, they may be logging in ten or fifteen minutes for RL issues and do not have time at that particular moment. I have set hostile and the CvC was nothing more than a verbal exchange. Rules change world to world as well so read up and if you do have a question ask the team on that world.
Arkon
World Leader
Posts: 2902
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:28 pm
Location: Ironton, MO

Post by Arkon »

Honestly... this is only about the millionth post of this kind I have seen.

No, most people do not wish to be involved in CvC, HOWEVER, it a world where good and evil intermingle it is going to happen. It is a necessity of a sort.

Now this does not mean that evil/or good people should be running around CvCing all the time, but if the situation warrants it, then yes.

For instance: Character a runs their mouth and throws insults (racial or otherwise) then it is perfectly logical that CvC would follow. The person CANNOT hide behind the "i do not want to CvC" deal when they have pushed the situation to that point.

I agree with Daemona that CvC is a nightmare to deal with when it is not done properly. Talks (both before and after the fact) help, a lot. Yeah in the heat of the moment someone might forget to hostile prior to attacking, but all it takes is a simple apology after the fact to make things better. This is not to say that it is something that can be repeatedly done over and over again, but mistakes and accidents do happen and people should not expect the worst.

Actions have consequences. If you do not want to be involved in a CvC altercation, do not allow a situation to escalate to that point.. but do so in an IC way.

Alternatively, people should not be running around looking to intentionally start CvC all the time as this just flat gets old and annoying.
Xanthalas
Loremaster
Posts: 1883
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:23 am
Contact:

Post by Xanthalas »

To be a terse commenter.

You play on a server where CvC (Albeit it Limited by irrational PvP) is allowed. You can not expect to be exempt from it.

There are plenty of servers where you're guaranteed a CvC'less existence.

I've been on Hala for a very long time. I've had Characters from the LG to the CE, and I've rarely had to deal with CvC. And I've never really gone to lengths to avoid it. Including being completely embarrassed at times, by being defeated quickly and easily, or out right outnumbered. due to my own IG actions.

I think one problem. (And I point out no one.) Is that some people want to be in the position, up until the point someone bigger comes along.

Though the biggest problem, as Arkon pointed out, is a simple matter of communication.

C'est la vie. Such is life.

There is no best. Join the table, or find the door.
[i]I live yet do not live in me,
am waiting as my life goes by,
and die because I do not die.
- St John of the Cross.[/i]


[url=http://wiki.ysgard.org/index.php?title=User:Xanthalas][size=75]WIKI INFO[/size][/url]
Verandis
Honor Guard: Church of Pants
Posts: 1063
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:16 am
Location: GMT -7

Post by Verandis »

There's a wide variety of good opinions on an old thread on CvC here:

viewtopic.php?highlight=cvc&t=4361

I found this useful because most of the opinions given let you know what frustrates people abut CvC and what they like about it. It differs from person to person, but overall, communication after the fight is important, and respect for your fellow players is VERY important.

I can say in all the times I've been attacked there was only one time in which I was not expecting it (and that time was on Avlis, not on Hala, and they had a darn good reason for the attack.) If I really did not want to be involved in every other CvC, I probably could have found an IC way to avoid it- though it is certainly harder when it's on your characters' home turf or it's your character' friends being attacked. (Be very careful about initiating CvC in the latter two circumstances, if you can. It is a lot harder for the character of a player that doesn't want to fight to find a IC excuse to leave their beloved city or whatever while some person is threatening it.)

Overall, I think CvC is not completely avoidable. Unless you're a TN character who doesn't believe in anything and doesn't want to aid any cause at all, which would make a really boring character, there will be times when what your character is doing is going to clash with another PC's beliefs.
Timdalos
Whelp of the Unholy Church of Newbieism
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:00 am

Post by Timdalos »

My touble with CVC is mostly a timing issue.... CvC has this bad habit of being not entirely in tune with the game engine.... and while one person ius tryign to find out what they can ICly respond with, the other peoson is getting all prepped and pumped and moving ahead... or conversely, while you stand there with your buffs and enchantments time out, while they fiddle about. It's very difficult to get things synchronized. The other issue, in a less practical and more personal sense, is, frankly, combat is not RP. CvC, or CvM, it's play, it should always be connected to... and enrich, RP both before and after, but the actual fighting, is near impossible to Roleplay DURING. Myself, I liek Roleplaying. So for me, CvC is a lot like CvM... a necessary evil. I don't like it, I avoid it when I can because usually I find it BORING.

On the other hand... I've said and felt for years that CvC inevitably and always degenerated good RP on a Server, because it creates situations where building an Uber PC Killing machine is rewarded, necessitating other players to make Builds at the least designed to not be killed by such prdators.... and, I have to say, Arkon changed my mind the other day.... even with teh stuicky bits in the Six Event, the PvP was VERY well done, very OOC friendly before, during, and after, and ws GREAT RP. Soooo... I was wrong :-) I still don't find it to be my favorite sort of Play, but I can't any longer claim it's detrimental to RP, since I had a nice clear demonstration of the opposite :-) And kudo's top all, DM and players, for changing my mind :-)
Trinity
Veteran DM
Posts: 738
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:29 pm
Location: Keeping an eye on you.

Post by Trinity »

This is the main reason I pushed to get the Sub mode in, everyone hates to be DP'd and have to redo their invatory. So unless someone acts against the rules and is a complete ass and doesnt walk away after being winded and knocked on the ground (at which point you should consider yourself dead and walk away) there really shouldnt be any reason to do full damage to another character unless theres something needing taken from them or other reasons. As far as warning people ooc in tells before hand,this is nice but under some circumstances this negates the element of suprise, so if you do warn someone ahead time, and you notice them logging out when you log in repeatedly or avoiding you ooc in some way please report it as this is total metagamming.
Rudiki
Wearer of the Holy Pants
Posts: 2644
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:42 pm
Location: Out and about!

Post by Rudiki »

What I intend, and what others can assume about me, is that I will play my character to the best of my ability, and I assume that others will do likewise. If that leads us into CvC situations, then so be it. It just doesn't occur to me to say: "Please don't CvC with me because OOCly I don't enjoy it." There are very few IC actions that I feel warrant my objecting OOC about, as long as those actions are in character for the character. In fact, something has come up recently in game that surprised me with how much it really does OOCly bother me, and still I'm agonizing over whether or not to say anything OOC about it. I just take it for granted that the RP will go where the characters personalities take it, so I don't mind not being warned beforehand. My answer to: "Are you okay with CvC?" is "It doesn't matter; do what your character would do in the situation and I'll be cool with it." If ever I set out to attack another character, I may or may not say anything OOC first, depending on the situation and what I know of the person's preference in that regard.
13thHour : [Tell] *your alignment has long since passed any possible further move to 'sexy' due to reinventing the scale*

[url=http://wiki.ysgard.org/index.php?title=PCs:Lexy]Lexy on the Wiki![/url]
Timdalos
Whelp of the Unholy Church of Newbieism
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:00 am

Post by Timdalos »

Well, teh only real reason for OOC is as someone said above "I have to leave for qwork in 15 min, I can't get into this tright now" or similiar... in MY case, I have an unfortunately unpredictable disabling illness, so there's time I have to say "I'm sorry, Tinker is in fine shape, but Tinker's player is running a high fever and having tremors, I can't do this rigth nwo, when would be a good time?"

Plus, it's just a matter of politeness, more than anything.... I'd NEVER avoid someone gunning for Tinker by looking at the Player List and logging when they're on, or avoid anything IC for OOC reasosn... just sometimes, things are REALLY bad for somethign like that, and I'd rather be understanding of that both ways.
Sable
Honor Guard: Holy Church of Big Mouths
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 2:44 pm
Location: Leeds

Post by Sable »

To state the bleeding obvious, I would say that by entering into an RP environment, one implicitly agrees/consents to CvC.

Where the problems arise are in the region of terminology. Lets call a spade a spade here (or as they say round where I live “a bloody shovel”), what people get upset by is PvP. Whilst CoPaP’s rule about calling it CvC helped in the early days to direct peoples focus into where the conflict was meant to occur, it seems to have just morphed back to meaning PvP and people getting upset about the wrong thing.

Where I see things going wrong:

There is an automatic assumption with some people that CvC is in fact PvP.
The worst reason for this I’ve seen is where Players judge the RP of other players and find it wanting/decide its insufficient for CvC conflict. PvP is a different beast entirely and people should stop jumping at shadows. PvPers, on the whole, moved onto other things long ago (there’ll always be the odd one or two, but meh). NWN is a pretty rotten PvP game all told. As for other players RP reasons, leave that to them, you have enough to worry about with your own characters never mind other peoples. And no matter how much you may think you know about someone’s character, it’ll never be enough to judge how its played.

Fear/assumption of losing. I mean sheeesh! 1. Nothing in NWN is unbeatable, so why theres an automatic assumption that someone will lose is beyond me. There are sooo many ways to execute conflict (not just standing toe to toe), you can always find a way to level the playing field.
2. If its losing that upsets you that much, seriously its time to take a long look in the mirror and think about life.


CvC really isn’t a problem for anyone, imo. Its made a problem by the fear it irrationally engenders, and by this urge people have to tip toe around the subject instead of just point blank saying “get over it, it’s a game”.
"Abash'd the Devil stood, And felt how awful goodness is, and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely” John Milton
Tremayne7
Honor Guard: Church of Pants
Posts: 1484
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:08 pm
Location: Richmond, VA USA
Contact:

Post by Tremayne7 »

I had a situation recently that got out of hand with people screaming "griefing" when it was something that could have been handled with a few little "tells" afterward.

Yes, I was sore, but if could have been handled better OOC with a few "I'm doing 'x' and yes you can do 'y' ". I'm not the only player this happened to and I won't hash the whole thing out again, but my point was communication.

Like Tim said, RL does call and you may be in the middle of a really tense situation and you have to log. Just polite manners would dictate someone to say, "I'm sorry but I have to go." If we were all sitting at a table playing pnp or even if we were still kids playing in the backyard, you could talk about this face to face, but we do not have that ability.

If you'd like an example of someone who is really annoying doing the PvP or CvC or whatever, watch the animae series ".hack//SIGN" for the character of Sora. If you've seen the series, you know what I mean.

Again I say communication is the key. Please talk to your fellow players after the fight especially if you do not know them. I play to have fun and hang out with people I enjoy hanging out with. Besides, you might make a new friend. :wink:
Second Star to the Right and Straight on 'til Morning

"If life is a hankerchief, love is the embrodery that makes it more beautiful." - Alexis Dufresne Montjoie

"A Tyrite, a thief, a ranger and a preppy elf were sitting in a bar with a druidess..." -Aranel
Post Reply