Auto Server Resets

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jarman
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Auto Server Resets

Post by jarman »

Is it possible to have the server auto reset itself maybe once per day? There are instances where merchants are getting killed lately but there are no DM's around so we have to wait till a DM comes on and reset the server. It is especially hard during the holidays.
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Post by Void Hamlet »

In general, there is a way, though I believe in a persistent world this should not be a regular practice.

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[ArcanE]
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Post by [ArcanE] »

Yea, server resets on a scheduled basis is something i'd rather not want to see in Hala. Indeed there are occasions that you are begging for a server reset and there is no DM around but thats just something we gotta live with i'm afraid. Regular server resets will affect gameplay too much imo.

Perhaps it is possible if we manage to find out when on average the least people are online in Hala, but i don't know if the server admin posesses such data?
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jarman
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Post by jarman »

Ok maybe not a server reset but a module reload. I have been apart of a module reload and it does not seriously affect game play at all IMO.

Look I am just tired of going into an area only to find out that the merchants or other NPC are not there because an event killed them off or some player decided to kill them off.
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Post by [ArcanE] »

jarman wrote:Ok maybe not a server reset but a module reload. I have been apart of a module reload and it does not seriously affect game play at all IMO.

Look I am just tired of going into an area only to find out that the merchants or other NPC are not there because an event killed them off or some player decided to kill them off.
True, perhaps not a bad idea ... or perhaps a script that respawns merchants?

But then a server reset wouldn't hurt lag either ... so why not.

Lets see what the mods say when they are back
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Post by albonia »

Look I am just tired of going into an area only to find out that the merchants or other NPC are not there because an event killed them off or some player decided to kill them off.
A few ideas to stop this,

(1) Make the NPC's invulnerable.

(2) Make it so they leave bodies and can be raised again.

(3) Post a few very tough NPC guards to guard the merchants so any idiot who tries to kill them will come to a nasty end.
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Post by Odin Hammersong »

[ArcanE] wrote:Yea, server resets on a scheduled basis is something i'd rather not want to see in Hala. Indeed there are occasions that you are begging for a server reset and there is no DM around but thats just something we gotta live with i'm afraid. Regular server resets will affect gameplay too much imo.
Well said, Arcane. I totally agree.

However, I don't think it matters whether it's a server reset or a module reload, point is the world returns to its original state. When that sort of thing becomes a public, scheduled thing, you tend to get major metagaming from players planning on the server resetting, and then changing their character's behavior because of it.

Personally, I like walking into an area and seeing things a bit different, even if it's a great merchant lying there dead. Gives some great RP opportunities, even if it's not a DM's doing. Now, I guess I'M metagaming because I(the player) knows the server will eventually reset and the merchant will return. Hrmm...

I don't like the idea of a scheduled restart or reload of the mod.

*tosses two copper*

--Odin

EDIT: And I love the idea of NPC being raise-able. Opens up even more RP hooks. :)
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Re: Auto Server Resets

Post by Zelle »

jarman wrote:Is it possible to have the server auto reset itself maybe once per day? There are instances where merchants are getting killed lately but there are no DM's around so we have to wait till a DM comes on and reset the server. It is especially hard during the holidays.
Merom, I second everything you said.

I would love to see auto-reloads. I was used to it on the last world I played on.

When Hala was on a less stable server, this was not a problem, as the server crashed everynow and then resetting itself. Damn that uber stable server we're on now!

Your having to wait over 2 days for that particuliar NPC to return because some ass killed it off was getting to be silly. If it hadn't crashed last night, who knows how long that might be.

LIke you said, it's because it's "over the holidays." Normally, Arkon reboots it at least once a day otherwise, but he's actually having a life right now, so we're feeling the pain :)

Auto-reset also means that if there's a module update, they can put it in the cue to go in at the next reload, and not have to sit around and do it manually. This was done all the time on a PvP server I played on.

Anyways, I would love to see this implemented.
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jarman
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Post by jarman »

Look, I just want to know if it is possible?

If it is not possible then we can focus our attentions to other solutions to dead merchants and key NPCs.

If it is possible then we can continue to discuss and debate the pros and cons of a module reload.

BTW I also like the idea of being able to raise dead merchants.

I also like to see a little change but I get a little fustrated after waiting three days to interact with a key NPC on merchant.

I have no problem with some character coming in and roleplaying their character correctly and killing npcs.
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Post by Arkon »

I will talk with the other DMs when I get back from my vacation, NWN Server does have a setup that will reload the mod when the server is empty, we might be willing to set this up. We'll see.
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Post by T'Holoth Shadowborn »

I like the idea of being able to ressurect merchants. That or perhaps make then like monster spawns and return after a certain amount of time?


It would be nice if there was some way to record when someone kills a merchant. As weak and annoying as I think killing merchants is, it's still a way for evil characters to "be bad".
It's a little silly I can walk up to a merchant, kill them, run from the guards and then a little while later I can come back and the same guards who saw me commit murder ignore me. The merchant, if respawned, is more then happy to sell to me even though i chopped them up.

Using the flag system would it be possible to somehow peg someone as a criminal if they murder an NPC and the NPC would refuse to sell to them? The more murders someone commits the more chance of them being seen or identified happens so sooner or later the guards will recognize them and attack on sight? It's almost taking advantage of the game engine knowing you can almost attack with impunity.

Maybe when a Dm catches someone murdering a merchant he can roll a d20 or whatever and see if there is a "witness". if so, the witness makes a sketch of what the murderer looks like and the guards put up wanted posters. These wanted posters could be something as simple as a screen shot without names of the individual. This way an evil character can really role play committing a murder AND role play the consiquences of their actions.

The same can be done for thieves robbing houses. Sooner or later their going to get caught and a witness may be able to draw a picture of them and hand it around.
I'm sure it's a lot of work but I think it would add a lot of RP to the server and also act as a deterant for people who just kill OOCly out of bordem.
The Dms naturally can't always be around but that doesn't mean NPCs aren't always watching.

Sorry to hijack your thread a little Jarman :o
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Post by Zelle »

T'Holoth Shadowborn wrote:I like the idea of being able to ressurect merchants. That or perhaps make then like monster spawns and return after a certain amount of time?


It would be nice if there was some way to record when someone kills a merchant. As weak and annoying as I think killing merchants is, it's still a way for evil characters to "be bad".
It's a little silly I can walk up to a merchant, kill them, run from the guards and then a little while later I can come back and the same guards who saw me commit murder ignore me. The merchant, if respawned, is more then happy to sell to me even though i chopped them up.

Using the flag system would it be possible to somehow peg someone as a criminal if they murder an NPC and the NPC would refuse to sell to them? The more murders someone commits the more chance of them being seen or identified happens so sooner or later the guards will recognize them and attack on sight? It's almost taking advantage of the game engine knowing you can almost attack with impunity.

Maybe when a Dm catches someone murdering a merchant he can roll a d20 or whatever and see if there is a "witness". if so, the witness makes a sketch of what the murderer looks like and the guards put up wanted posters. These wanted posters could be something as simple as a screen shot without names of the individual. This way an evil character can really role play committing a murder AND role play the consiquences of their actions.

The same can be done for thieves robbing houses. Sooner or later their going to get caught and a witness may be able to draw a picture of them and hand it around.
I'm sure it's a lot of work but I think it would add a lot of RP to the server and also act as a deterant for people who just kill OOCly out of bordem.
The Dms naturally can't always be around but that doesn't mean NPCs aren't always watching.

Sorry to hijack your thread a little Jarman :o
I disapprove of this. You basically want the NPCs to metagame people!

If for whatever reason, I go and murder everyone as a drow, and then wander back later as Zale, the NPCs should not be circulating sketches of Zale!

I'd rather not see this implemented unless it's some pretty high grade scripting to take into account all disguises and so forth, and the differences thereof. The "disguise kit" is a start, but as the factions in it basically all say "get a dm's approval before using this" is far from complete.
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Post by T'Holoth Shadowborn »

I knew you would disaprove :)

I know what you mean by saying the NPCs are going to metagame. Oppisite of that it's an engine screw up that an NPC will "forget" a murder or crime where as a player does not. I consider a player using this knowledge as metagaming. They can virtually attack with impunity or rob a city blind 7 days a week with zero consequences. Forget "real world", even in a fantasy world that just wouldn't happen. Someone is going to notice their house being robbed every day and someone is going to notice the merchant outside of their house being murdered every day.

I know your looking at this from a shifters point of view and it's obvious how it would metagame you. The same goes for someone who is polymorphed into a troll and murders a merchant. I think you need to consider it from an over all point of view as well. I have no doubt in my mind if you wanted to commit a crime you would use one of your shifting forms ( :wink: ) and someone who is role playing a serious criminal as well would go to great lenghts to disguise themselves.

That said, I'm going to guess that 95% of the time merchants are murdered it's by players who are not
a. shifted or poly morphed
b. disguised themselves as per copap(and hala) guidelines
c. really role play it out.

Just because a DM or other players aren't "watching" a murderer/criminal doesn't mean they can throw any attempt at effort out the window. On risk of possibly griefing a few players such as yourself, I think it's important we take the community and world of Hala as a whole into consideration first. I think the key to making a good role playing world great is to take as many differences betwen PCs and NPC characters as possible. NPCs should be treated as intelligent people dispite all the limitations they suffer from the game engine.

I agree it would require some heavy duty scripting and effort from the staff members. Everything begins with a step though, adding a heavy amout of RP to crimes is a step in the right direction.
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Post by Zelle »

So, for the hopes of POSSIBILUY adding a little bit of RP to know who kills stuff, you would rather they DEFINATELY screw me and my whole character concept and make my character immediately recognziable in my covert actiosn. the WHOLE POINT OF MY CHARACTER.

Sorry, this happens without enough coding to give these supposedly intelligent guards the ability to not metagame me, and I have no reason to continue playing.

I purposefully limit my character's flexibility in combat to allow for greater RP possibilities. This would basiclaly give me NO REASON to bother to do so, as hey, everybody and their mother would know who I was. I might as well powergame and nothing else, since I'm in such a minority than screwing over intricate RP doens't need to be considered.

That being said. In a perfect world the guards would remember WHAT THEY DO SEE. But as far as I know this would be so complicated to code to allow them to ONLY remember the people dressed exactly as they are (or shifted) that I do not see them going to that extreme. If it was, I'd be all for it. As it is I am VIOLENTLY opposed.
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Post by T'Holoth Shadowborn »

VIOLENTLY? Like, the mere suggestion makes you SICK TO YOUR STOMACH? :P

Look before you get TOO UPSET i'm not suggesting people specifically destroy any chance you have at rolplaying a shape shifter thus giving you no other option than to throw RP out the window and powergame.

relax

I'm saying there are certain people who take advantage of the game system in a big way sometimes (Which i think really takes away from the whole RP idea) and I think it might be a good idea to give some consideration on possible ways to fix it.

Naturally when considering the possible options it would be taken into account how it effects people such as shifters, changlings, polymorphed people. Whatever. Another huge issue would be character disguises. When we RP being disguised it may fool a PC but it deffinatly doesn't fool an NPC.
I'd personally like to see a disguised character (OR shifted character) be flagged or tagged (not sure the terminology) different then someone without a disguise or in another form.
I think that would be pretty bennificial to someone commiting crimes, sneaking around or murdering someone. Lets say you steal something. You chould shift forms from the form you origionally stole in and the NPCs wouldn't give you a second glance. If you murder someone while in disguise you can run into a building, change, and casually walk away.
It would make for great role playing. It would be a lot of hard work but i think it would stop many people from casually killing NPCs without much reprecussion unless they took the time and effort to do it, in which case more power to them. I wish when someone was shifted or polymorphed their name would dissipear, now that would be handy.

I don't know the first thing about coding or scripting. I'm not sure if it's even possible or if the DMs even think it's worth giving any thought over. They may think it's fine the way it is. It's just brainstorming here.
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Post by jarman »

It should get harder the more you steal or the more you murder. Common sense dictates that if you continue to steal that the person you are stealing from either runs out of items to steal or comes up with better security measures.

Maybe script it so that if you steal from a house you have to wait so many days for it to replenish. The more you steal the longer it takes or the harder it gets (more traps, deadlier traps, difficult traps). That way it forces the thief to use more of their advanced abilities instead of just using what they received as a 1st level thief.

Not trying to make it hard on anyone in particular but rather make it more challenging.
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Post by [ArcanE] »

Perhaps an even better solution is that instead of scripting all that AI we would just log all NPC murders and the circumstances of the murder like current spells on killer, polymorphed or not, disguised or not etc ...

Then let NWNX output all that to a database for logging and let a DM review those logs once in a while and act accordingly to the circumstances (change factions, etc ...)

Sounds like a better way to handle NPC and Merchant killings. And most important this is easier to script that some advanced AI system for NPC's

8)
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Post by jarman »

[ArcanE] wrote:... let a DM review those logs once in a while and act accordingly to the circumstances (change factions, etc ...) ...
This is the best way but also the hardest on the DM. Because the DM not only has to look through logs but then they have to keep an eye out for the PC. Some PC's that do these acts are not native to Hala. All of this takes the DM away from interacting with the players and that is something I (and others I am sure) would not like to see happen.

I like the idea of tagging a PC but I most admit that I have not thought through this a lot but here is what I am thinking about.

Stealing:
Tag the PC once a theft has occured. A tagged PC that tries to steal again from the same house will find the DCs on the locks gradually get harder or traps are applied and they get harder. Start making the thief work for it!

Murders:
I am still trying to figure out what to do here and have been looking at everyones replies. IG I have no problems with someone murdering an NPC as long as they have a solid valid reason for doing it IG. Just because the merchant jacked up his prices on the PC is not a reason for murder.

I am also aware that any solution that does not involve human interaction will require a lot of scripting and there are not that many scripters around.
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Post by Arkon »

I think for the sake of ending this arguement before it goes any further I will go out on a limb and say we will not likely be changing the way things are done in game. If you aren't caugth by a DM, then you likely were not caught. However, if you ARE caught by a DM... In WHATEVER form you may be in.. expect to get the hell beat out of you. Personally I'm sick of seeing people kill NPCs and rob houses every time there is a server reset or mod reload. Would you HONESTLY Go back and re rob a place you just robbed a day ago? No, you probably wouldn't, so doing so in game is also Metagaming. So that argument holds not water with me. Also, if you are caught by a DM doing any of the afore mentioned things, and We try to RP you on it, Do not do the typical things I see happening on a daily basis... those things being,

A) Logging to avoid punishiment
B) Arguing with us in the DM channel about it
C) Using area transitions to pull the old escape and change tactic.

Why this last one? Think about it. You cross the transition from Nagritch to the Nagritch Docks. That is a huge wide open area. Don't you think that that guard or whatever that is chasing you is going to see you change? I do, And that is exactly how I am going to DM it. As a player of a Changeling character I know all about this stuff, and I know the tricks that players like to pull. So yes... take this as a warning, threat, whatever. If you get caught committing murder or theft, Do not try the above things. At best we are just going to RP your capture and possible death.. at worse and for repeat offenders, you could find yourself vault jailed and/or banned for Metagaming :)

Have a nice day.
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Post by [ArcanE] »

Arkon wrote:Have a nice day.
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