Characters loosing levels and abilities

[Odin Hammersong]

It's not overseen, it just isn't categorized as it's own alignment because it's in the middle of the two axis used. They just treat Neutral like somewhere "along the way" to the other extreme. If it was truly over-looked you'd go from Lawful straight to Chaotic ar Good straight to Evil.

It's just the difference between a 2 dimensional and 3 dimensional alignment system. In NWN they took a 3D system and made it 2D for ease of use and less work, i imagine.

So quit yer bellyachin

[Guest]

DMs nearly always speak with the player prior to removing levels to make sure that A) it is ok, or B) to make sure they understand why it is happening and give the player a chance to explain their actions that led the DM to that decision.

Nice ... But as Eclipse i didn't get it

[dodici]

DMs nearly always speak with the player prior to removing levels to make sure that A) it is ok, or B) to make sure they understand why it is happening and give the player a chance to explain their actions that led the DM to that decision.

Nice ... But as Eclipse i didn't get it

[Arkon]

As I said, nearly always, and from what i understand, the reasoning was explained to you quite thorougly by Dune. Honestly, As DMs we reserve the right to do pretty much anything to your character that we deem necessary. We don't HAVE to ask you for your permission. We do so because we want everyone to have fun. In some cases we make arbitrary decisions. Such was the case with Eclipse. We were already somewhat unhappy with the class combo to begin with... A Sorc/Paladin makes very little sense. But we let it slide.

When Eclipse helped kill that dragon without doing much of anything to find another way of dealing with the situation, it made even less sense to allow him to remain the Paladin of the God of Dragons. As such the paladin levels were removed, and unless I'm mistaken, you were allowed to become a fighter of the same level as the number of Paladin levels you lost as a result. In my opinion you got a fairly decent shake.

We are probably one of the MOST lenient servers when it comes to certain things. We don't hammer down on Blatant Powergamers much aside from running them out of areas. We don't exclude people from our Events for it, and we give a hell of a lot more chances to people who break the rules than Avlis or any other world that i know of at the moment. So you can be pretty sure, if we do something... The person it happens to did something to Warrent it. Especially considering that almost all of those things have to go through either Me or Nob before they get approved. And I'm a softy when it comes to things cause I want everyone to have a good time.


So what it boils down to... Have fun, and RP your character. If you have a LG Paladin of a God of Squirrels... you damn well better doing your best to stop people from abusing squirrels... If you are a druid, you better be doing your part and RPing the druidish connection with Nature. If you are a Cleric... you better be RPing the relationship with your God as one of their healers/preachers/whatever. If you don't, the gauntlet will come down, and it will have consequences.

This isn't a hack-n-slash powergame server where everyone can do whatever they want without consequences. Your actions will have consequences with your Character. Expect them. You do something stupid, your character will pay the price. Is it always fun? No, but it is what brings the RP to life in this little slice of fantasy.

[Guest]

let's see it in a different point of view...

1) a powerful artifact sword
2) tiamat cult leader
3) time
4) the dragon


1) a powerful artifact sword, that is said can bring doom to Hala and beyond

2) the tiamat cult leader wants the sword... what will happen if the tiamat cult leader gets the artifact, maybe he will still fail to rule over hala but surely he will grow more powerful and bring more pain and death all over

3) no time is left the tiamt cult leader is close to get the artifact

4) eclipse met the dragon before and he always tried to speak with him and avoid to harm it... but this time is different the dragon is protecting the tiamat cult leader, and the tiamt cult leader is going to take the sword... the time it's over...


Eclipse made his choose to stop the tiamt cult leader to get the artifact and pass over the dragon... he did it in mind to save more lives... not just for the fun of hack-n-slash

yes eclipse failed to save the dragon, and i'm not a good RPlayer, i do accept the loss of the paladin status... but what i don't agree is eclipse get no chance to explain why he did what he did...

and if a paladin has to choose to save one life or to avoid the doom of an entire plain still i think he has to go for the second one...

[dodici]

Sorry, the post before is made by me

[Arkon]

The point is, you had approximately 2 weeks to do board work, in game work with a dm, etc to try and find a way to "uncurse" the dragon, in fact, the only one I saw doing any such thing was Solar. The RP isn't only done IG. That's what the boards are for. Send PMs to the DM running the plot explaining the things your character is doing to try and fix a situation. This explains what you are doing during that two week time span when there is low activity from whatever group is manuevering to try and overcome them.

As I said, DMs do what they feel is necessary based on the situation. You situation was an accumulation of a lot of things. Yeah, you gained a lot of your paladin status on Mystara. This isn't Mystara. Hala requires a LOT more RP than Mystara does or ever has. We enforce it a lot more due to having a greater DM presence. Sometimes people don't like what happens to their character. That's life. Not everything goes the way everyone wants it to all the time.

This argument on these boards is over. If you want to further the discussion, PM me and we'll take it that way.

[Lord Droke]

Ok...page 9 3rd edition DM Guide

When everyone gathers around the table (Comps in this case) to play the game, you (the dm) are in charge. That doesn't mean you can tell people what to do outside the boundaries of the game, but it does mean that you're the final arbiter of the rules within the game. Good players will always recognize that you have the ultimate authority over the game mechanics, even superseding something in a rulebook.

[T'Holoth Shadowborn]

If you want to quibble semantics, don't respond to me. You asked me if a druid would do something. I said they could. I didn't say they must. I don't appreciate you trying to put words in my mouth.

It;s not semantics my little ray of sunshine.

Would is a solid statement. A druid WOULD do this. A druid WOULD NOT do something else.

If it is a varaiable then you should have used a word like may or might or could.

The point of my question was wether or not DMs can force something upon a character given their actions if it was extreme enough. The aswer apparently is yes, however in all but the most extreme of cases they will see to include the player on the decision.

I don't really like the fact that i'll get evil points automatically by playing on hades.
I can understand if theres no good answer to solving a problem which is fine, I just hope Dms do not go out of their way to force decisions on players with a view to leading them down a specific path.

[Arkon]

I'll answer this part, as it relates to Hades.
It's not a cakewalk to play a paladin in the plane of true evil.
Playing there WILL get you evil points on the alignment scale. Even if it is in small increments. There isn't always a good option out of every problem, especially in Hades.

While not my server and I can't tell you what you can and can't do... I wouldn't recommend this. All things such as this will do is limit the players that will be going to your world in the end. If players are afraid that by going to a world their character concept will be put into jeapordy, they are not going to go there.

While I do agree that there should be ramifications if a good person decides to make a life on Hades... the arbitrary hit of evil points, in my opinion, shouldn't be one of them. If that were the case, there wouldn't be any Evil people on Hala as the CG nature of the plane would turn everyone good. Yes, the plane is going to affect them, but its not going to take someone who is truely good at heart and make them evil. Make them unstable? Possibly, look at Kay'lana.

As I said, it's your world and you can do what you want. But I'd strongly recommend against your stated course of action.

[Slogth]

I'm not so sure a Paladin would want to go to Hades in the first place it is pure evil. When I was running PNP Planescapes I bought the Blood Wars box set and the way they explained Paladins in the underworld was that they would go insane and probably die very quickly. Going insane because of the such large presence of evil, die quickly because of the Paladins strong aura of good would be noticed by devils and demons alike and both would destroy it. I do agree with Arkon, giving points in evil for walking around in Hades may not be the best answer for a NWN PW but I think you got the right idea Final Shinryuu.

[Final Shinryuu]

There will always be a reason for any alignment hits. Playing on Hades won't make you evil. Basing your LG character in Hades will almost always force you to compremise that character's alignment in the course of plots, however.
Sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

Hades won't be featuring many good-aligned plots. They just don't work there. Most will be oriented towards evil characters. If you're playing a LG character, and trying to get involved in events going on, there won't always be a good solution out of a problem.

[apandapion]

I'm not so sure a Paladin would want to go to Hades in the first place it is pure evil.

You can't fling a brick without making the multiverse a better place, there. *grin*[/quote]

[apandapion]

If you want to quibble semantics, don't respond to me. You asked me if a druid would do something. I said they could. I didn't say they must. I don't appreciate you trying to put words in my mouth.

It;s not semantics my little ray of sunshine.

Would is a solid statement. A druid WOULD do this. A druid WOULD NOT do something else.

If I'm arguing that druids should have a freer range of action than most would grant them, and you are arguing against, then taking a single sentence of mine out of context and insisting that it proves your point is turning the argument from an argument about ideas to an argument about words. Trying to snatch a single sentence and yell "I win!" is a debating style for toddlers, not adults.

[charlierazor]

An adult term comes to mind. "Zen"

Roughly translated, "Let it go."

[T'Holoth Shadowborn]

Trying to snatch a single sentence and yell "I win!" is a debating style for toddlers, not adults

Awe, big sniffle


You're going to argue that druids should have a wider range of actions that limit your role playing less. The same way I'll argue for Paladins, the same way Zale argued for Shifters. Same way Morgan is going to argue for RDDs etc.. etc..

Your going to have a different opinion on how a Druid can/should be played than me, Arkon, Dyers, Dune, TimB etc..

My point is that irregardless of our steadfast opinion on how classes should be played from our D&D experience, in the end the DMs on this server will decide how said classes are played. If you don't agree with how a druid is portrayed here, well you know what to do.
If you disagree with it THAT much then bring it in game and find a way to role play it's change.


As for Paladins going to Hades, IMHO hades would be a huge attraction to them. They get to bring their faith into no man's land and destroy true evil. Sure their going to die but look at it from a character point of view.

Only thing is on hades when you die your dead for a long while since the death planes dont work heh

[apandapion]

Awe, big sniffle

Now you are harassing me. You say "let the dms make thier decisions", and you are here listing people by name to 'encourage' certain decisions. You started this thread by telling people how to play, and now you are just making fun of people, me in particular. Stop.

[T'Holoth Shadowborn]

Edit: I'm going to reword this a little to be less argumentitive.

The whole 'your harassing me please stop' mantra is old and weak given the fact that you're more than happy to sling snide or subtle comments like your toddler comment.

If you consider my 'big sniffle' comment harassing in reply to your toddler comment than I strongly reccomend you remember the 16+ age requirement here. We're all adult here (except for ril ). If you find a crying emoticon harassing well what can i say? Grow up. People who throw around harassment accusations as casually as you ONLY serve to take away from the credibility of honest harassment complaints. Don't hide behind our harassment policies and try to use them as leverage dude.

I started this tread by telling people how to play? Stop trolling. This thread is about reprecussions of a characters actions and what the DMs can do to a character when they feel a situation warrants intervention. It is also about characters having to accept that DMs will have the final word when it comes to how classes are portrayed. I feel like i'm a broken record here.

The intent of me listing people by names is to point out that most of us have a favorite class and were apt to become defensive over it anytime we percieve someone trying to take away something from said class. I'm a perfect example of trying to champion the paladin and psion class. So we all feel like we know how "our" classes should be played.

I'm not trying to encourage anything. I've seen something in the game which I feel should have role playing reprecussions (not saying good or bad) so I am taking an idea and putting it forward to the team. If they agree then maybe we can have some fun and throw a few RP curve balls at one of our respected players, if not than no harm done.
The best servers are the ones that take and use feed back from the players to promote a changing world. Not some cookie cutter server where you do what your expected to and everything follows a script.

If your that interested in what happens to druids on hala and how they are played (and the injustices against them) let me strongly suggest you actually play on hala and see for yourself.

[Druid523]

Bravo.

[Arkon]

Ok, this thread is getting locked because apparently this discussion can no longer continue in a civilized manner. I should have stepped in earlier and done this, my bad. My mistake, won't happen again.

I do not want to see this discussion revived in another thread, if I do, it will be deleted.

If you want to flame, do it on someone else's boards.

If you want to make statements that are likely to incite someone to make a hurtful, or what can be conceived as a hurtful response, do it on someone else's boards.

If you want to retaliate to someone else's inciteful statement, do it on someone else's boards.

I'm here to have fun and enjoy the game. As I have said before. I want to Build and DM... not be stuck playing forum police.