A better place for this

Dengar · Post by **Dengar** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:41 am

I will never blame the Dm's or the uprising in New players, advancing faster than you should...
That is powergaming, and a manipulation of the world... but in my mind... let them... it will ruin the character... Dm's will no doubt pay them less attention... I would hope...
As being a Character (Player) who has been disciplined by the DM's for my lack of roleplaying, and other things, some of which I never did... But I digress... Because the rules have been spelled out for me, I have been given another chance, and I have obtained a certain respect for the saviors of my Characters.

Going from 1st to 15th in a week, less or even under a few months, is totally exploiting the hack slash capabilities... but if you read the rules of Hala... The Server rules... it is more or less, mainly a Roleplaying server... not a place to be, if you want to gain levels fast...

I will admit, at first I hated coming to hala... it seemed all my friends got Dm attention, none for me... when I really started playing here, I understood why they got the attention.
I wasn't on freaquently, and when I was, I roleplayed my character, but the way I was, didn't fit in the events my friends were going through.

EXAMPLE: All my friends, were in the Demon Army... I wasn't... Instead of trying to join, I attacked the demon who would have hired me.
I did however get experience for the roleplaying I did... It wasn't a ton, or even that much by any standard, but it was deserved and a perfect amount...

The fact that I can go from 1st level, to 7th level, in the 2 maybe 3 months I have played my cleric, and most of the time... I'd say 90% I have traveled alone... is almost ridiculous... but when i look to the few I have seen go from 1st to 15th-16th in the same time and less, is just plain wrong, and disturbing... You, and all of you know who you are, should know better.... if you want to gain levels fast, play another server.
If you are going to play Hala, I would expect reprocussions for your actions... just as I have always seen here.

(outside of that, Dengar still have a shocking axe to give to any DM)

Thank you
Dengar "The meatshield Puppybane" Kegbuster
Enbla Zebilie
Siva Oblodra So'Riatin
Amash of Blackbard

"Bee"

Days Awake · Post by **Days Awake** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:04 am

best thing is to just ignore these players if they disturb you,if everyone ignores them then they wont have any reason to play here

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:20 am

I would send them a tell saying that you have no interest in playing with them and to please stop bothering you.

Dengar · Post by **Dengar** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:29 am

Actually I just ignore them... but not everybody does.

Wasn't really saying this for me, but for all.

darkserra · Post by **darkserra** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:15 am

Soooo.............

Who decides what is "too fast"?

Is it a level a week, 2 a month, 4 per quarter?

Is it posted that "thou shalt not kill the critters"?

I understand Hala is a roleplaying server. In my opinion, rp servers are a lot more fun than hack/slash servers. But roleplay indicates and/or requires feedback. There is very little roleplay when you operate in a vacuum.

If there aren't any DMs to see what you do, did it actually happen? If you look around Hala, you are required to kill stuff just to move around.

Other than the delivery quests in Nagritch, every other quest requires you to kill something to get a reward. Isn't that setting the wrong example?

To get gold on Hala requires killing things, as the crafting system is up and working yet.

If we want a true RP server, then has to be moderated feedback, ways to gains XP and gold without hack and slash and a REASON to actually roleplay, preferrably something other than "Roleplay or else....".
And yes, I have offered my services to help.

My character runs around, exploring new places, seeking new life, bolding going..... (oops, wrong show). Anyway, I explore, looking for wrongs to redress and hopefully providing something to the Hala comunity, and yet there have been some who have bitched that "that new guy" is doing something they don't like. Things change, hopefully for the better.

Just my rant..... Hopefully we can all have fun and make Hala a better place to come and play.

Post by **Arkon** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:39 am

I think Dengar is more referring to the sudden flux of people who took advantage of an old dungeon that I returned to the server, the Minotaur Caves.

Hala is a Roleplay first server. Always has been. Beings that Hala has pretty much always been a mid to upper level based server, people who went from level 1-15 fast were generally overlooked and not messed with much. But that changed when I took over. I started gearing the server more towards the lower level characters so they wouldn't need to powergame levels to be able to survive. I believe we have come to a fairly decent medium.

As far as powergaming goes. I would say a general rule of thumb is this... if you spend more time going to places that give high XP than you do RPing with other people, then you are probably powergaming. Certain places give more XP than others. We DMs know this and we try to watch these areas. We can see when areas are being abused and we try to adjust, hense the recent changes to the Minotaur Caves... again...

There are people who have had characters for over a year and have never gotten that character over level 10

There are people who have had their character for a month and are level 20. Each person has their own playing style.

While powergaming is not encouraged, it is not a bannable offense. What will happen is this...

If a DM sees you blatantly powergaming, we will notify you (again, if we see you) We'll let you know that you are leveling too fast. If you continue to do so.. expect to be left out of events and DM funness. If we see you powergaming certain areas, expect to get ran out of them. These are the only real warnings we give. Then we black list you. A black listed player is likely to get little to no DM attention...

A powergamer is typically pretty easy for a DM to spot... they are generally the ones running around as level 21 characters with +1 gear from the Server Merchants. If you are a roleplayer vice a powergamer, there is a 90% chance that you will (if you have not already) be pulled into DM events, invited to DM events specifically and other such things. This will be evident by gear. DMs like to give out gear and we tend to do so to people we think deserves it.

Just something to think about. It's never too late to change.. if you initially powergamed your character, it's not too late to slow it down and turn that character into an RP character. People who we see do this are easily removed from the black list.

As a general leveling rule.. a lot of us go by this... Lvl 1-5 One level every couple of days to a week. Level 5-10 one level every couple of weeks or so... After this.. it varies as leveling becomes harder.

The servers are generally set up so that you are meant to gain approximately 100 XP per game hour or so once you get out of certain areas like the beetle farms and such. People who play a lot are obviously going to gain more in a day than someone who only plays for a couple of hours. This is all taken into account when we look at your character.

Always keep in mind.

The primary rule of Hala is to Have fun and help others have fun!

silverdragonams · Post by **silverdragonams** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:57 am

oops Arkon got here before me

Who decides what is "too fast"?

Is it a level a week, 2 a month, 4 per quarter?

Is it posted that "thou shalt not kill the critters"?

The problem isn't so much how many levels you gain, but how you are gaining them.

Do you repeatedly go to the same areas where you get good gold/exp?

Do you spend more time bashing NPCs than you do talking to PCs?

Do you spend a lot of time killing alone? Do you often drag summons with you into places you normally would not be able to handle alone?

Do DM's chase you out of areas?

Do you brag to your buddies about how many time's you've leveled or make bets about how quickly you can gain epic?

There's a big difference in getting a lot of experience from playing 6 hours a day, and getting a lot from playing 2 hours a day and spending all that time hunting. We watch, and we talk to each other and the players and we know who is who.

As for not having anything else to do....

Dune has been working on the University but has been a little under the weather lately.

13th Hour is working on a static quest and spending all the time he isn't working or sleeping giving Trek a bad reputation.

I'm working on crafting...but...well...it's a huge project. What you see available right now is sort of a "Beta" version. I hope to have 1.0 where you will at least be able to make the basics out soon.

And finally, those who have offered to help are still under consideration

It's mostly a matter of wanting to get to know you all a little as players before hiring you.

Psye Shaar · Post by **Psye Shaar** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:29 pm

darkserra wrote:I understand Hala is a roleplaying server. In my opinion, rp servers are a lot more fun than hack/slash servers. But roleplay indicates and/or requires feedback. There is very little roleplay when you operate in a vacuum.

If there aren't any DMs to see what you do, did it actually happen? If you look around Hala, you are required to kill stuff just to move around.

Other than the delivery quests in Nagritch, every other quest requires you to kill something to get a reward. Isn't that setting the wrong example?

To get gold on Hala requires killing things, as the crafting system is up and working yet.

If we want a true RP server, then has to be moderated feedback, ways to gains XP and gold without hack and slash and a REASON to actually roleplay, preferrably something other than "Roleplay or else....".

I was going to keep away from this thread, but the two parts of this i've highlighted kind of bug me.

Why do you need dm's to see things to presume that they are noticed? We only have to watch a few conversations to get a feel for how people are simply by the reactions of other PC's around them. IMHO it should matter far more how much the rest of the playerbase takes note of your PC than how much the dm's choose to watch them.

Static quests can be fun and that's why we try to put them in, but i've watched numerous people out on adventures having a great time without the requirement of a quest or dm interaction. If people actually choose to RP, then they will find fun in what goes on around them.

Also - and to be perfectly honest i'm getting a little peeved at having to say this - USE THE IC BOARDS FOR IC THINGS TOO!
Character journals are often a pleasure to read and may well earn you cookies as well as giving dm's ideas. IC goings on that you think are things you would like dm's to know about will be known if you write them up.

I know this will undoubtedly be read as a moan, but it is meant constructively, so please at least attempt to see it that way. This world is as much built around the players as it is by the ideas of the people behind the scenes. If the characters have no personality to be seen, then neither will the environment in which they live.

*chucks in his $0.2 and wanders off to find someone to be annoyed at*

darkserra · Post by **darkserra** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:58 pm

Wow!!!!

I hadn't expected the reactions, but I think it is great! I have learned more about the "soul" of Hala in the this one post than I have from any other source.

In case I didn't make it clear in my earlier post.... I appreciate EVERY minute of every second that the DMs put into Hala.. they are taking away from their life to put something together for the rest of us. I have run campaigns in the past that took a huge amount of precious free time and sometimes didnt get the feedback that the players appreciated it... WELL I DO. THANKS TO ALL OF YOU THAT CONTRIBUTE!!!

Hopefully, we are all here to have fun. That's the reason I'm here. If it wasn't fun, I would find something else. The people on Hala are great and I have had some really good times with people just out and about.

Hopefully some of this info will allow everyone to understand where the DMs are coming from and the expectiations for new/old players.

Thanks everyone!!

Dengar · Post by **Dengar** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:33 pm

Thanks for agreeing everybody.

Jskee · Post by **Jskee** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:52 pm

Dengar wrote:I will never blame the Dm's or the uprising in New players, advancing faster than you should...
That is powergaming, and a manipulation of the world... but in my mind... let them... it will ruin the character... Dm's will no doubt pay them less attention... I would hope.......

Slow down friend...SLOW DOWN. Your post explains how you ~initially~ didn't play by the rules, how you didn't "fit in" and that you were punished for it by the dm's. It took awhile, but now you see the server from an rp view, and understand how much more rewarding RP'ing is versus Hack-n-Slash. Let's give these new players the benefit of the doubt, and see what they bring to the table. I too am frustrated at the rate at which some people have leveled their characters, but now that they know the rules...let's see what happens. If we use yourself as an example, we know it's worth giving people second chances.

Zombie wrote:I would send them a tell saying that you have no interest in playing with them and to please stop bothering you.

Is that why Morgan is playing hard to get???

Seriously though, I struggle with that comment and here's why: Once I had let my RL feelings jade my IC actions and ended up alienating my character and myself from the server. Also, I ended up looking like a complete ass in the process. I don't know the right thing to do here, but I say keep IC actions strictly IC. Luckily, I play a dirty bastard so it's easy to be rude IC'ly, just ask Tris.

Arkon wrote:...I started gearing the server more towards the lower level characters so they wouldn't need to powergame levels to be able to survive.

Still tough until your char is around level 5ish or so, but vastly different than how Hala used to be.

Arkon wrote:As a general leveling rule.. a lot of us go by this... Lvl 1-5 One level every couple of days to a week. Level 5-10 one level every couple of weeks or so... After this.. it varies as leveling becomes harder.

Nice general rule, however with the Mino caves giving out ridiculous xp even for parties that can/should be there, it makes it tough ~not~ to level if you go there in a party.

Arkon wrote:Always keep in mind.

The primary rule of Hala is to Have fun and help others have fun!

So, since Niko always follows the rules, if he's ever been nice to anyone...this is the reason why.

Psye Shaar wrote:Also - and to be perfectly honest i'm getting a little peeved at having to say this - USE THE IC BOARDS FOR IC THINGS TOO!
Character journals are often a pleasure to read and may well earn you cookies as well as giving dm's ideas. IC goings on that you think are things you would like dm's to know about will be known if you write them up.

Amen.

Jskee · Post by **Jskee** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:53 pm

Hey Days Awake...resize your Avatar please, it's way WAY too big.

Days Awake · Post by **Days Awake** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:13 pm

is it way too big?...or is your screen just that small?

Jskee · Post by **Jskee** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:22 pm

Days Awake wrote:is it way too big?...or is your screen just that small?

you sound just like my ex.

Last Chancellor · Post by **Last Chancellor** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:49 pm

I have to say this topic ended up being far more sober-minded than I had hoped and thanks to everyond for sanely and intelligently contributing their two cents.

I espescially appreciate Arkon's clear and incisive post which fairly but not harshly deliniated the exact rules and attitudes regarding powergaming on this server. It was more than helpful, espescially to me. The series of questions Silver posted were also useful in that regard.

And this...

Let's give these new players the benefit of the doubt, and see what they bring to the table. I too am frustrated at the rate at which some people have leveled their characters, but now that they know the rules...let's see what happens.

I am particularly grateful to have seen this stated clearly. We were ALL new players once. I myself was regarded as annoying in the early weeks of the first PW I played on- we all need time to grow and develop. And very often the rules of any server are amorphous and miasmatic when it comes to quantitative issues like powergaming- you often need to break the rules at least once in order to get a real sense of what the boundaries actually are as it is not always that clear.

I am not going to deny my own culpability in the recent hash fest that was the mino-gaming. Certainly nearly everyone on for the past two weeks has at least one taken a hit from the great bong that is the deathtouched minotaur caves. I myself do feel guilty about doing so and I have already said that I won't try to gain any further levels for a while, the character in question is one I enjoy and whose RP I wish to further develop, so that's what I've been setting off to do from this point forward with my character because that's really what I'm here for. And really, the RP *is* what is the most fun.

Secondly this powergaming issue has created a quiet schism in the Hala community as well as some resentment. Hopefully this will end and we can all move forward peacefully as a community since the issue seems to be steadily resolved by both the DMs and the players. We're all here to have fun and enjoy ourselves. Sooo.... let's just do that.

Dengar · Post by **Dengar** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:23 pm

Funny enough I think Jeskee said it best... Give them a chance to learn the rules... but I and a few others I am sure believe it should be adressed now, before we have 17 epic level characters, who started four weeks ago.
I can't say they don't roleplay, and I wont say I am not guilty of trying to gain levels fast so I could be at least close to my friends (Calandra, Lirana, Denegar, Slogoth) But after a while, once I started getting close to them, they all started playing new characters... so here I was, High level, and hated, if not ignored by other characters... It was like starting all over again. But as I grew into the roleplaying, I found new friends, and enemies... As well, it is nice to see more Characters playing regularly...

To say we need a peacful Hala, is kind of a ridiculous Idea... I don't mean to demean Liera... She is an excellent asset to this world, her roleplaying is enjoyable to me, and also annoying to some... I love it. Her and Elly do a fantastic job of making this world more interesting.

Yesterday I was traveling with two other people, one higher than me, and one who had just started, when the higher level one left, I showed the new Character to the Beetle farm, He thought it was boring...
I can't say I dissagree with him about the lack of places for newer characters to go, but, the DMs, and the people who built the world did a damn good job... I remember the original Nagritch and Tel, and I remember the first revamp of Hala, then the switch to a newer Hala, and now, the mix of Old and new.
Those places have always been there or the lower level characters, to Gain levels, and experience of playing thier characters... Not all people played the Paper and pencil game... Some have bought the game just because it looked kool.

As I said... if you want to gain levels as fast as possible, This is not really the place to be... but, if you stay and just level, level, and level... your not gonna have as much fun building your character.

It is hard to keep the original idea of your characters direction, and not stray away from it... How many high level characters have decided to go a different way (ex a high level mage, changing to fighter or a rouge, for the sake of fighting and or sneaking abilites in combat) The roleplaying is a big part of that. Who you travel with can, and will influence your choices...

Give it a try, you might enjoy your stay here a bit more. I don't want to see people leave, nor do I believe, or would ever suggest anyone be banned for doing this... I would have been banned 20 times over.

It's true I am not the best roleplayer ever, and that I have been a shmuck before I almost got banned... I was given a second chance, and I believe I have used it well... I am just stating what I know, and what I believe, I am not trying to call you out, or get you in trouble with the DM's... You will learn in time that wont help you, or me.

Like it or not, this is my opinion... That is all it is.

Dengar/Amash/Enbla/Siva... and a few others I never play!

corwink · Post by **corwink** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:13 pm

It is hard to keep the original idea of your characters direction, and not stray away from it... How many high level characters have decided to go a different way (ex a high level mage, changing to fighter or a rouge, for the sake of fighting and or sneaking abilites in combat) The roleplaying is a big part of that. Who you travel with can, and will influence your choices...

I've only been playing on hala for a couple of months and have already found this to be true. i started off as a happy go lucky ranger without a care in the world. Now, because of events that have happened to my character thru roleplay he is becoming a paladin and trying to join the celestial order. definately not what I originally intended. but it's been awesome to play. I've been playing Pnp games for 13 years now, and in the 2 months i've been playin on hala i've had more fun than any previous game.

As far as leveling to fast, me and my wife (jenai) are only 6th level after 2 months of playing on hala. we do our share of sending the baddies to the dp. but we both are getting more into our characters and rping with others. we have a great time on hala no matter what we're doing. for both of us this was the first server we had played that mandated rping. it took a little while to get used to staying in character and actually interacting with others, instead of playing it like we played the regular campains. now that we are more experienced rpers we're starting to shift our focus more to rp than killing. though sometimes my wife jenai has an itchy arm that i'm sure some of you have noticed, it's not to get xp, more than just her character's bloodthirsty nature. which i'm sure will make for some interesting rp opportunity once my character (corwin) becomes a paladin. but we shall see how it turns out.

Dengar · Post by **Dengar** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:15 pm

I applaud you and your wife

Last Chancellor · Post by **Last Chancellor** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:53 pm

I don't mean to demean Liera... She is an excellent asset to this world, her roleplaying is enjoyable to me, and also annoying to some... I love it. Her and Elly do a fantastic job of making this world more interesting.

Not quite sure how to respond to that, but thank you.

I know I certainly haven't tried to be annoying to anyone...

Also, I'm not sure it's so ridiculous. To clarify I meant OOC-peaceful. IC conflict is awesome and enriching to the world. OOC conflict is a load of depressing nonsense that destroys the game experience. Fantasy is a realm that is sought after precisely because it enables an escape from the vicissitudes of social nonsense we have to deal with every day. So I don't think I was asking for too much by making a universal appeal to everyone for that.

As to the powergaming matter, Corwin and Jenai are fun RPers yes, but you also have to keep in mind their slow levelling is a function of the fact that they are only able to play on weekends, and then just for a couple of hours. As Arkon said, the amount of time you spend on the server daily is a legitimate factor in determining WHAT constitutes too much. Given the very limited time, though I agree it's much more fun that they decide to spend most of it roleplaying.

As I have already conceded here, though I play a lot more I feel I have also done too much so I'm keeping my new character away from any experience gathering for at least three weeks or a month to even things out. So what you say is true in regards to levelling too fast and hurting your character development. To be certain, Corwin's story is indicative of what can happen when you take your time and it is certainly more rewarding. I need not quote the number of fairy tales that exist in every culture which extol the virtue of patience.

All that being said, I just tire of the us versus them mentality. We were all new players once. And we all were not as good as we are now. So...

Peace on Hala.

Dengar · Post by **Dengar** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:07 am

I appologise for misreading your "peace"
statement, and whole-heartedly agree with you

Jskee · Post by **Jskee** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:20 am

I still hate you all. Every last one of you.

princessofjustice · Post by **princessofjustice** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:25 am

Even me*gives the puppy dog eyes*

Dengar · Post by **Dengar** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:35 am

Jeskee... I hate you, even if it means every character I have metegames hating you just for spite!!! =)

timb · Post by **timb** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:21 am

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

You all do it. I see you high levels towing the lowbies around all the time... I rarely log in as a DM to not find one group of you in a dungeon.

It's not up to you to decide how fast another player levels, some characters desire power, in order to RP their character that way. It's sort of hard to talk smack if you don't have the goods to back it up, right?

Some of these players you mention that are leveling quickly, they might powergame, but they also RP, and do it well. How do I know? I used to be one of those people (I still would be, if I played); there's nothing wrong with it as long as you sufficiently roleplay.

You play *your* character, and let *us* decide who's abusing the rules.

Or, in the words of Chuck Norris "Cry more, noob."

-timb

Days Awake · Post by **Days Awake** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:18 am

*rings the bell* And folks!.....we have a winner!!