Evil PC's drow or otherwise

[Lord Droke]

I have been playing an evil char since I started playing in Avlis, in the summer of 2004. My Character was a barbarian/fighter/thief named Denagar son of Fregoloth. As a new player in a vast CoPAP world, I made a lot of mistakes. First and foremost I didn’t use the Avlis boards; I thought they were big and confusing so I never used them for nothing besides updates and such. It also took me a long time to warm up to people OOC, as a veteran PNP gamer, I wanted to just dive into my char and go to town skipping the table talk. The way I saw it, was if people know me then they will react differently to Denagar’s barbaric personality, so I didn’t use a lot of tells or OOC talk at all. These things basicly caused me to be alienated by the Avlis PC’s when I was low level with Denagar. I also didn’t like the way there was like this huge server and everyone stood around elfgate, in Elysia and talked about the color of there shoes. I found it quite dull. Where is the fun in playing in a huge fantasy world, when all you do is stand in one place chatting while you wait for a dm to come on and make something happen? I decided I was going to be different, so I steered Denagar down the darkside. This was quite easy in Avlis since if you kill or rob, you lose points in alignment (something I never wholly agreed with) Still I Rp’d the change. It started when Denagar got infected with Lycanthropy. When he would change into a wererat, I had him begin to murder NPC’s. Then when he changed back I began to RP that he was starting to enjoy the change. Ultimately some high level PC cured him of his ailment, so I made this fuel Denagar’s anger, his journey to evil was complete.
Shortly after me and some friends of mine, Slogth played by JooliMae, Lir’ana played by Bladechill, and Calandra played by Squee. Together we decided to form an evil group. Again mistakes were made; we did not know about logs, we didn’t post anything on the boards until after we struck. Since we didn’t use the boards we were not fully aware of rules regarding CVC, or rules on attacking cities, or attacking NPC’s for that matter. So we attacked Elysia blind, with total ignorance. We murdered every NPC in the market area, one unlucky PC was crafting at a table in one of the buildings. He was a witness, I attacked, and let him Dp, during the commotion Lir stayed invisible only appearing when needed. Then PC’s and guards showed up, and we fled to Hala through the tower in Elysia escaping retribution (little did we know to everyone else it looked like we came on attacked a bunch of NPC’s and logged off). Obviously we screwed up big time here. No need to go into more detail, me and Slogth were vault jailed in Avlis for 5 days and Lir got away because she was invisible. The interesting thing is some PC’s who were standing at elfgate at the time of our attack said they saw us attack (I know this because Squee, who decided not to take part in our little raid, was on the same map as them the entire time It was a hard lesson, PC’s in avlis don’t react well to evil chars, Denagar especially was basically black balled by the Elysian player base, with epic level PC’s telling me I was not welcome OOC. So I packed up and began to play regularly on Hala and Mystara.
I began to forget about trying to be evil and just started having fun. Wyland was among the first PC’s not from my home town I really began to associate with, Liang Doomsun, Tristle, and a slew of others began to follow. Then on one fateful night while traveling with Lir, Wyland, and some characters from Avlis, in the Minotaur caves in Hala, we encountered a balor. The balor took Lir and I to a secret place and asked for our aid in its war against the Celestials. Amazed at the chance to finally play our evil characters out we joined.
Initially everything started going well. We had some good fights, and then things kind of just stopped. So we returned to Mystara and began adventuring there when we returned. Our demon lord had been killed, and Grimm was in charge of what was left of the army. We weren’t even notified on the boards (not that we used them much but we did make board names so we could get access to the demon thread.) through PM’s or the dm thread of the use changes to our group, which we were the majority members when we left. So slowly I began to play less and less then stopped.
Then one day Bladechill tells me he and another buddy of ours had made a drow brother and sister. We decided to make the entire family. The So’Riatin’s were born. These characters were different though; my character Vilmiathien for example was able to associate with more PC’s. She soon was sucked into the first Minotaur war and was present in Tel for the initial attack and Bastion for the final one. This character being a priestess of Lloth, quickly became more enjoyable. Happily takeing part in little plots here and there she moved up in levels and I had so much fun playing this uppity little wench that Denagar soon faded away to nothing with the rest of the Demon Army. As her power grew so did her boldness. Ultimately molding her into the evil high priestess she is today.
Due to my mistakes of the past, I learned a few things about playing an evil character.
1. Evil characters should always keep logs, you never know when or why you will need them.
2. Try to use the boards as much as possible, when you do things in game a dm may not see, and if one does it will probably be only be one, on the boards they all see.
3. Start this character knowing most of the time you will lose, and be ready to be abused IC if people start to catch on to your wickedness.
4. Try to talk to people OOC, I am still bad at this, but I’ve gotten better. If they know you, they are less likely to flip out when you kill them.
5. If you got an idea about doing something evil, talk to a dm first or post something on the boards in secret if you can. In truth, it’s the only way anything major can happen. With Denagar I tried to do things with out letting any DM’s know and failed, I have seen other players do this as well.
6. Evil characters upon reaching epic level require DM attention to function properly. This is do to the fact that high level evil characters affect plotline with there actions. In truth all evil characters should work closer with DM’s from the start to increase the fun for all.
I have heard it said that lately the good characters have been getting the shorter end of the stick lately. This is entirely ludicrous. The good and nuetral PC’s have way more going on at one time then any drow that’s for sure. Due to recent activity Vilmi can’t work with any of the other pc’s in just about any plot (With the exception of a couple of unnamed allys). All I can do is try to weasel my way into a plot to add a twist, which still has yet to be fully realized. As Vil, I have been pawned by other PC’s more times then most of you can probably imagine. Hell, Vilmi has even been urinated on, twice. And that was a long time ago! If my invis spell fades in just about any populated area in Hala, and a DM is on Im probably as good as dead. This is the price I pay for playing what I play and the IC things I have done. I get beat on, urinated on, scared to death that Im going to loose my god’s favor if I fail, banned IC from places, unable to participate in most events, unable to shop at PC run shops, among a great many other things.
I accept all these things as part of playing an evil drow, but to hear that after a couple of major victories ( that’s a couple out of several CVC attempts over a period of Real Life weeks.) that it’s not fair for the good guys and they are getting the shorter end of the stick! Come on people, in reality the forces of good don’t always win. Not to mention that there loss generates Rp for them, as they try to rebuild. DM’s control the bad guys, so if there is an evil PC said PC should try to work closer with the team since that is where most of his/her allys will be. This is not favoritism, or good characters getting cheated out of DM attention, this is the DM’s working with evil PC’s to further the plotline for the good PC’s, and just like in real life, evil sometimes wins. If my recent actions have upset anyone, please except my humblest apologies, I’m just trying to play my character, just like the rest. I hope everyone is having fun and enjoying themselves, just remember just that because I play a cold heartless drow bitch does not mean I am like that in reality if I mess up or do something that is causing you not to have fun, let me know and I will do what I can to fix it, even if it means breaking character which would be and extreme case, I have yet to find a situation we can not create the RP for. Well enough of my long windedness (yeah Im at it again Arkon), I hope this post lends some insight to other players and DMs about myself my characters and other PC’s who play or are thinking of playing evil characters.

[Zombie]

I would like to add that I always find it more satisfiying foiling the actions of a fellow player, rather than an npc. I also enjoy a story a lot more when the major players on both sides are players, perhaps with a few npc lackies to throw into the mix.

[Gregpooh]

Evil PC's dont always have it easy in the NWN system either. I noticed Vilmi running around the battle in Mirtho being pincushioned by her own troops!

Such are the trials of the Evil PC in an evil NPC world.

[NWDuneAuron]

Paragraphs are tools of good and are unneeded by forces of evil!

[Lord Droke]

LOL, but Im lawful!! LOL

[silverdragonams]

Alright, for what its worth, here's my 2 cents.

It's not evil characters that are disliked OOC'ly. It is a certain portrayal of evil the gets annoying.

This is a chaotic good plane evil is ALWAYS going to be outnumbered. So, while an evil group might get away with the occasional raid or attack on a city no evil PC group is going to have the resources to do it constantly. And letting it be publicly known that you are the ones doing it is well... not bright.

Sooner or later the cities and the good groups smarten up. Not being able to show your face in a city, or shop where you want or participate in events are the IC consequences of those actions, not the DM's being mean to you because you are playing evil.

So, here's an idea. Try using a little deceit and cunning when you're playing evil. I know this has been brought up before. Stupid-evil is "lets go keel everyone and leave a note saying we own you all!!" Smart evil is "Lets go do something that will get a bunch of people killed, then blame it on the good guys" The first one is fun a few times, but you will never win and ultimatly it will get old. Theres a million different ways to play the second out, and as long as you dont get caught, you've won.

[Lord Droke]

This is a chaotic good plane evil is ALWAYS going to be outnumbered. So, while an evil group might get away with the occasional raid or attack on a city no evil PC group is going to have the resources to do it constantly.

I am total agreement about resources. I currently have a militia of my own to rebuild. However, the fact this is a CG plane does not mean a whole lot to me. Take Ravenloft for example, Ravenloft is a primarily evil plane with a focus on gothic horror. If good never won in Ravenloft however, it would not be that fun of a campaign setting.

And letting it be publicly known that you are the ones doing it is well... not bright.

The point of the recent drow raids have been to build the hatred and fear of drow that should have already been there. There is method to our madness my freind

Not being able to show your face in a city, or shop where you want or participate in events are the IC consequences of those actions, not the DM's being mean to you because you are playing evil.

Let me restate my earlier post. I accept these things for the consequence of my IC actions, in fact I want them. If they didnt happen I would say something is wrong. I never said any Dm's were being mean to me or any other PC because we play evil. On quite the contrary, I feel most of the DM's as of late have been very helpful. I was simply saying that evil characters never get the bigger end of the stick and to say otherwise is just plane silly. Even our recent victories come at a price, and to upset the balance and steer the plane away from its CG consensous would require the knocking of several more bergs out of the sky, and even that would probably not change it.

As far as the last thing you said - *kicks the veil thread and coughs on the dust and laughs at the futillity of his attempts to involve himself in the Rune plot* That idea only will work if number 6 in my previous post is realized. A couple of DM's have stepped foward with evil plots, but none have aloted room in there current plot lines for us use this cunning and deceit. If you see us trying to get some stake in one of your plots, and what we are doing is not working, through us bone to steer us in the right direction. Part of being a DM is being able to improvise on the drop of a dime, to steer your player characters in the righ direction.

[silverdragonams]

*kicks the veil thread and coughs on the dust and laughs at the futillity of his attempts to involve himself in the Rune plot*

Evil characters have every opportunity of getting in on the rune plot, its just a matter of going about it the right way with the right NPCs.

[Gregpooh]

Personally, I also like to challenge the on-line notion that Evil means someone who kills other PC's as a way of life, or even, someone who is at odds with other PC's all the time. Evil characters do not always have to be villians with grand schemes, or thieves out only to steal from others. I think this comes mostly from my P&P days where Evils PC's have to coexist in a party with other alignments. There are many shades of 'Evil' out there, just as there are many different types of 'good' characters.

I also am not talking about those who pretend to be good guys sometimes, and then go off to be evil thieves and muderers when other's backs are turned. What I am talking about are subtler forms of evil, not mustache twirling villiany.

Anyone here read 'The Order of the Stick' webcomic? The Halfling, Belkar is a great example of an Evil PC. His motivations are entirely selfish and evil. He adventures for the shear joy of being able to cause injury and pain. He has simply found a way to act out his evil that is more acceptable to the society around him. This means he doesn't have to hide in a hole all the time, or come out only wearing a hood. Even as a PC evil character, his evil actions still get him into trouble, but he still functions as part of a group. The storyline where he makes it his mission to get a paladin so ticked off that she does something against her alignment so she will fall from Paladinhood is priceless.

Another type of evil PC is subtler still. I am going to out one of my characters for the sake of this example. Isendir the Flame (My occasional elven side character) is evil, evil, evil. He is also, polite, soft spoken, considerate, and cultured. He is evil simply because he puts the advancement of his knowledge above all other considerations. The sanctity of life means very little to him when it comes to furthering knowlege. As long as there are creatures like goblins (who it is socialy acceptable to kill) he will have a ready supply of materials for his various experiments. Another character of this type would be the 5 fingered man, Count Rugen, from the princess bride. Very socialy correct, totaly evil.

Of course I'm not suggesting that all Evil characters have to be played like this. Since this is a discussion on Evil PC's however, I thought I would toss a few more possibilities in the mix for those who choose evil to consider.

Oh, and if there are any Sopranos fans out there, remember that most of the people on that show would be considered evil in D&D terms, even those who are loving family members in their 'off hours'.

[Odin Hammersong]

Thanks for the history reminder, Droke. That brings back some memories for sure. I remember seeing the slow transformation of Denegar to a truly evil bloke. It was very entertaining.

As far as Vilmi goes, I think that's one of the most difficult character paths to choose, especially in Hala. Arkon, being a big drow fan and wealth of lore for the dark elves, has created a huge history of drow events in this world. Many many events regarding the Lloth drow have taken place here, so it takes a fair amount of huevos to step up and claim the Matron of Lloth. Props to you for that!

When House So'Raitin was first created, I was really excited for them. Having a DM supported evil threat in Hala really had the potential to spice things up in a way that NPCs just can't do. Some of the things they could do was realized, other things never quite came to frutition(not yet at least). But to me the idea of drow PCs doing raids on towns and other PC parties really kept folks looking over their shoulder IC. A problem I saw right off the bat though is that people weren't keeping things IC. There was animosity toward the evil PCs OOCly, like the players themselves were evil people. This is utterly childish behavior IMO. The people playing evil PCs(those who dont play Stupid-Evil, that is) are generally very experienced RPers with a real desire to make the world more fun for everyone. When you build an evil PC, you plan to get your butt kicked. That's part of the deal. So when you do get small victories here and there, it really feels good, especially when you see IG results of your character's evil actions(good PCs building fortifications, hiring guards, etc).

OOCly I have been a big supporter of the SoRaitin since their inception. I told Vilmi long ago to throw the kitchen sink at Wyland, DP him if you can. The other day when Vilmi and Vildur killed Wyland, I was probably the happiest one! Why? Simple: It opened up aton of RP possibilities. That's really all a player can ask for. ICly that was probably a big victory for them, but also I wanted folks to see the mercilessly evil ways of the dark elves and ICly be afraid of them. Or at least be looking over their shoulder a lot.

Anyway, I'll quit rambling. To sum it up: Playing evil is very hard. Playing an evil drow on Hala is twice as hard as that, at least. It's folly to think that every evil PC is going to come up with perfect cunning ideas, it's just damn hard. They usually need a few more hints and help than non evils. The So'Raitins all want to keep it fun for everyone involved. They get their asses kicked over and over and still come up smilin. Seeing them get a few small victories is a small sacrifice to see them continue to play their wicked characters, IMHO.

--Odin

[DM D'Artagnan]

Evil PC's dont always have it easy in the NWN system either. I noticed Vilmi running around the battle in Mirtho being pincushioned by her own troops!

Such are the trials of the Evil PC in an evil NPC world.

That was my bad, but believe me, it won't happen again!

[Xanthalas]

Without getting into the subjectivity of morality and purpose, I would have to agree with Silver on alot of this. Playing a little more introvertive Drow in comparison to Lord Droke, Although he has killed, every single time has been DM involved, otherwise, I have not truly been a killer.

He may be Drow, He may be evil(ish...) But he is a wizard too, one with a very dramatic past. For those of you who have not RP'ed with me, I can assure you that, I have a very unorthodox way of doing things, Besides the asshat I am OOCly. I tend to always take a unique perspective on things.

Why?
Because I'm a unique asshat.

With Ryk's favourable Intelligence stat, I see him causing more political or social damage then anything, Yes. he can cast chained lightning or horrid wilting, sure, but honestly, the strength should lie in the stats, and in Ryk's case thats Intelligence,

So come, play some psychological Chess with me,
I am sure you will enjoy it.

As for dealing with the more common/mainstream/stereotypical evils, I can admit that there has been a few times that were, strange. But to be honestly, on a whole, I have been either largely lucky, or I lack the certain nerve to be stomped on by evil RP, ((I have other nerves which are a little too exposed, I am quick to note.)) Especially here in Hala, one thing that I find somewhat amusing, is the difference of perspective, and the suppositions of intent put forth by all of our individual actions. Next time when your dealing with some RP, stop, think about what it looks like from all angles, ((even think outside of the usual dm/pc/npc boundries) and see what you would think.

In my own case, I like to put myself in T'holoth Shadowborne's position sometimes, and view the surroundings, ((Someone is going to have to deflate his ego for me.)) See what my char looks like others, and what's going on, Xai too, which has a very different approach to things. It might give a little insight as to what you are seeming like, and might help you adjust to what you aim for.

Anyways, A generally happy player tosses his two cents in, and tips his asshat to you. ((that sounds bad.))

Erm thanks and See ya,
LOL

[micah ormane]

Excellent post Droke - I understand your sentiments on many of these issues, coming from Avlis as one of the (arguably of course) most feared and evil around there.

To the evil characters out there: His points of advice are good ones, they make other players happy.

My bit: Whatever face your evil character puts to the public (rapacious thug? Quiet contemplative? Something in between?), be cunning on the forums and behind the scenes. This is much much more fun to DM for, even if your cunning involves you setting up a trap where you mercilessly beat on some dumb good guys.

Plus, I'm a big fan of supporting good Evil PC's. If you need some help, drop me a PM. If I have time, and the ideas are good, we can work together to make everybody else miserable.

[Lord Droke]

What was that Characters name again?

[micah ormane]

What was that Characters name again?

If you mean mine, it was the same as my Board name here. =)

[Slogth]

Where do I start wow!

I have been a DM of PNP for over 10 years now, from the original D&D to 3rd edition rules and even ran a small campaign in NWN with a group of friends. As being a DM for so long I always have to find a new and unique way for the evil to give the good PCs something to work for. This is why I made the character I made. Vildur So'Riatin is a cunning Drow rouge of Lloth and yes he is evil. As a rouge PC I always had plans to work behind the scenes in a Mafia type fashion and formed business ties with surfacers to help supply our family and better myself of course. Just like the mob Vildur never saw personal life with business and when business ties where broke with Vildur due to his ties to Vilmi and Lloth, this I expected in fact anyone with any knowledge of the Drow race (IC of course) would HATE the Drow and even FEAR them. If you disagree with me then you haven't read much on Drow. I feel to have evil characters in a persistent world is an excellent way to keep things fresh and exciting with out evil there is no good.

This is a chaotic good plane evil is ALWAYS going to be outnumbered.

There are a couple problems I have with this. First of all Ysgard is also the Plane of Epic Battle, what's more Epic than true good versus pure evil. Secondly it doesn't matter where you are there is always going to be evil like I said earlier with out evil there is no good, it's the Yin and the Yang.

And letting it be publicly known that you are the ones doing it is well... not bright.

Totally disagree this is the best thing we could have ever done, ICly and OOCly. OOCly we needed to instill the fear that should already be there for the Drow. ICly the Drow are a proud race and to attack with success on the surface well yes they would let it be known.

Sooner or later the cities and the good groups smarten up.

I've been told that my 60 hide and 50 something Move Silently is not enough to walk around Nagritch and places because the cities have smartened up but I could use a Potion of Invisibility (something that costs a lot less than the over a year and 14 levels of work I put into my Hide and Move Silently skills) or a disguise. A disguise yes but a Potion of Invisibility? With out good skills in Spot and Listen you are not going to find someone hiding with these skills unless you are using True Seeing even then you are not always going to see a hidden character unless you make your role. If the guards are all using True Seeing then Invisibility is completely out of the question you'll be spotted immediately and if you want to talk about resources just how long are these cities going to be able to have a non stop 24/7 supply of True Seeing anyways?

Not being able to show your face in a city, or shop where you want or participate in events are the IC consequences of those actions, not the DM's being mean to you because you are playing evil.

Let me get a big HELL YEAH for this one! I worked hard at not being able to show my face in populated areas and I am damn proud of it. I love having to watch every step I take. There is an ancient Drow Proverb "Always watch your front because you always expect it in the back" this is Drow society.

So, here's an idea. Try using a little deceit and cunning when you're playing evil.

Vildur does this well. Like I said earlier Vildur built business ties with Second Hand Celestial and they where broke due to his allegiance. Vildur being a rouge wanted to heist Second Hand Celestial and put them out of business by stealing their goods. OOC if I was successful I didn't want a FUBAR amount of items just to hurt the rare magical items market of the surface and the DM could do as they willed with the items. This of course never happened but I worked at it and tried the cunning the approach.

Evil characters have every opportunity of getting in on the rune plot, its just a matter of going about it the right way with the right NPCs.

I don't think they do. I have tried many, many different ways to get involved and have always been shot down. I first started actually by accident, hunting some good characters. I snuck in to Mirtho Rest and stood behind the hill hidden listening and watching peaking my head around to see what was going on. Seamus I guess had just got back from and expedition to the White Star because of these runes and even had one I know he said he had it and even took it out before bringing it to his room. So I stuck around longer because IC Vildur did not know Seamus or his name and waited for someone to call him by name and they did. Vildur was happy and had the information he needed. This of course took me to the White Star Alliance to see what was going on there. Again I was told my exact hide at the time was 58 and 52 Move Silently was not good enough because I was told NPCs where keeping an eye because of recent events and I would have gotten killed. That is fine and I accept that so I went about it differently. With Vildur's knowledge of Seamus having a Rune of Power Vildur made his disguise and went to Nagritch to find minimal information in the library as everyone else did and then went to Mirtho and talk to the people there with the true information. Vildur walked up there cloaked and even masked as a surfacer stating he was a traveling scholar named Elrond Hubbard looking for information of these Runes of Power so that he may document this historical event. No one attacked Vildur in his disguise but know one would talk to him of the runes either. Characters where even starting to spell up, they said just in case of a Drow raid (coincidence I don't really think so), in fact Elly So'Riatin showed up and Elrond (Vildur) was acting scared of her because she was Drow, still to no avail he got no information. So after that Vildur went back to the Drow city and look for information of these runes in the Drow library and Drow Archmages. Thus far this has been ignored. To sum it all up I have tried many times to get involved in different ways the only way I haven't tried yet is by force.

[silverdragonams]

This is a chaotic good plane evil is ALWAYS going to be outnumbered.

There are a couple problems I have with this. First of all Ysgard is also the Plane of Epic Battle, what's more Epic than true good versus pure evil. Secondly it doesn't matter where you are there is always going to be evil like I said earlier with out evil there is no good, it's the Yin and the Yang.

And letting it be publicly known that you are the ones doing it is well... not bright.

Totally disagree this is the best thing we could have ever done, ICly and OOCly. OOCly we needed to instill the fear that should already be there for the Drow. ICly the Drow are a proud race and to attack with success on the surface well yes they would let it be known.

Sooner or later the cities and the good groups smarten up.

You are missing the point. Not that its a CG plane, but a CG plane. This isn't a prime world. You are one relatively small population of drow against a whole plane of nearly immortal war loving barbarians (and fighters and mages...). Why should they fear a few drow? Want to raid Naldanskar? They will think you're throwing a party. Want to raid Bastion? Expect to be squished by a legion of guards. Nagritch? They've seen drow raids 1000 times before you even started playing. I'm not saying don't be evil. Hell, I'm not saying the raids should stop completely. I'm saying try something different. And nothing spreads chaos and fear like the unknown.

I've been told that my 60 hide and 50 something Move Silently is not enough to walk around Nagritch and places because the cities have smartened up but I could use a Potion of Invisibility (something that costs a lot less than the over a year and 14 levels of work I put into my Hide and Move Silently skills) or a disguise.

You are waling through a city full of mages and highly skilled archers. True sight on demand, and the snipers...are just scary.

Evil characters have every opportunity of getting in on the rune plot, its just a matter of going about it the right way with the right NPCs.

I don't think they do........

Evil characters have every opportunity of getting in on the rune plot, its just a matter of going about it the right way with the right NPCs.

So far not even the good guys have asked the right people. You did have the opportunity. Your mistake was attacking the NPC guild that could have gotten you in. Sometimes evil has to cooperate with other evil to get what they want rather than take it by force.

Edit: I nearly forgot, one PC went straight to the right people, and yes, that person is evil.

[Zombie]

Oh I just can't wait till you all see what I have brewing. If it works there will be some shocked faces

[Druid523]

Heh, I for one loved the Drow raids on Mirtho (before and after the crash). Also, having the occasional Drow assassin(s) popping up out of nowhere is great! I've been a long-time fan of the Drow, and when I first came to Hala, they were mentioned but never really a big part of anything. Despite the fact that they're a "small group" compared to the rest of the plane, I don't think it matters so much what the NPCs in Naldanskar or Bastion think about drow raids. I know for a fact that there are a ton of PCs that think about them. And that's what matters.

The Drow are feared now, as they should be. Lolth should be proud. And the players of these Drow PCs should be proud, as well. You're all doing a bang-up job! Keep it up. =)

[Lord Droke]

I would also like to add a revelation I have had in the past few months. The Drow of Hala are not realy of Hala at all, the fact is there city sits in this set of temporal rifts in time in space we have come to know as the staircase. The drow city itself is not considered to be of this plane. There fore it is entirely feasable that there are just as many powerful, godlike drow in Oerth, if thats what we are calling the city (Still have made and official decision if the plane it is in is Oerth or not.) as there are barbarians in nadalaskar, and quite possibley the combined military might equal to that of Bastion or Nagritch (not that the drow would be able to rally together long enough wage war, opposing drow families do not work well together.)
So that being said it is entirely possible that there are many forces of evil that could leak there way into this CG Plane. Also since Hala/ysgard is not a prime world it would not be uncommon to have doors and portals popping in and out here and there, as well as denziens of other planes coming in and out of Hala. Allso I would like to point out that Ysgard has a portal to the grey wastes of Hades. This portal is linked to a primarily evil outer plane, loaded with Baazetu who would like nothing more then to find a clean battleground for the blood war.

[Lir'ana]

From what I am reading most ppl don't seem to know how drow should be played.

1) Raids would happen constantly no matter if drow are out numbered or not. That is Lolth drow society. Kill surfacers, if they are elven thats even better. It wouldn't matter if it was a group of 15 drow and 100's of good aligned elves, so stating that this is a Good plane doesn't matter or that they are severly outnumbered. It would be even more likely since there is a temple of Lolth in the area. Understand I am not saying that they would blindly charge a force they would definetly lose against. They would wait, watch and once a small enough group broke off they would kill them. No warning, no RP. On second thought they may even attack the whole large number. They would throw darkness down run in kill as many as they could and run away before darkness ran out. That is Lolth Drow.

2) LOLTH DROW KILL SURFACERS There are very few exceptions to that. The So'Riatins understand that constantly attacking does not create any RP or fun but you must also understand that to play a Lolth drow correctly they would not talk to surfacers they would go straight for kill no rp nothing. That is Lolth drow, so already right there the So'Riatins have changed a major part of drow Lolth society to help fit into a nwn pw, just by talking to a pc before attacking.

3) Drow would not be allowed in any surface village, city or settlement. It wouldn't even matter if they were followers of Elistraee (ya probaly misspelled that). With the exception of someone like the high priestess of Elistraee who would probaly be known all over the plane. She would still probaly be refused entry unless she could prove who she was, And who would believe a drow?

On to other things. I keep hearing about how the good pc's are getting the short end of the stick because they lose a battle or 10. Bah! As pointed out before, Drow pc's are severly outnumbered. Any Drow pc who can have one other person in their party, walk up to a group (5 or more) of good pc's and manage to win has been playing long enough that they have been killed and pawned more than you can imagine. I personally have had my drow killed more than 20x just for being drow and he isn't even evil. And I'm only counting the kills dealt to me by 2 pc's that I stood no chance against. This also doesn't count other pc's or dm's. So what if you lose some battles, if you won them all what would be the point in playing? you already know the outcome.

As for the NPC's and all this true sight or what not. Even wizards must rest and study back their spells, In a town like Nagaritch it would need a large army of spell casters to supply all gaurds and snipers with true sight spells 24/7 a larger number of mages than their are gaurds since the spells only last several hours or what not, especially since their are rp wise a very large army of gaurds and snipers that are not placed onto the map for lag reasons same with southcamp. Also let me ask you what wizard you ever heard of who would do nothing but memorize and cast true sight spells for months? None they would be interested in their own studies at some point. Its just not realistic. I agree with the drow not being allowed in nagaritch sneaking or invis. Thats how it should be, but a more viable reason should be given because the current isn't very realistic. Saying something like their is a mage stationed at every gate at all times to constantly cast the spells on themselves or a guard sounds more realistic, you don't need an army of mages. Also while this is how it should be since there is no place for drow to actually do anything. Crafting for instance, most master crafters are in towns drow can't enter, the master crafters don't actually tell you how to start crafting so one must learn from another pc but drow with the state of things really can't interact with other pc's to find out recipes. So you won't find drow crafting and this is just an example.

all the above is just my own opinion and things I've noticed. No offense is meant to anyone especially not the dm's who give up their free time to better hala/ysgard so that we can play and have fun.

[Lord Droke]

And Scel we are proud! Sorry bout the other night lol, if we were not in the middle of battle I probably would have RP'd the situation out a little further. Thanks for the support

[DM D'Artagnan]

1) Raids would happen constantly no matter if drow are out numbered or not.

Lloth drow are not limitless, thus "constant" attacks are improbable and are not gonna happen.

2) LOLTH DROW KILL SURFACERS There are very few exceptions to that. The So'Riatins understand that constantly attacking does not create any RP or fun but you must also understand that to play a Lolth drow correctly they would not talk to surfacers they would go straight for kill no rp nothing. That is Lolth drow, so already right there the So'Riatins have changed a major part of drow Lolth society to help fit into a nwn pw, just by talking to a pc before attacking.

Again, not gonna happen on Hala. If you want to go play in a hack and slash world where this is acceptable, feel free. Unless it's an ambush overseen by a dm, you better damn well rp it.

3) Drow would not be allowed in any surface village, city or settlement. It wouldn't even matter if they were followers of Elistraee (ya probaly misspelled that). With the exception of someone like the high priestess of Elistraee who would probaly be known all over the plane. She would still probaly be refused entry unless she could prove who she was, And who would believe a drow?

Yet you still play your drow to get along with the surfacers?

I personally have had my drow killed more than 20x just for being drow and he isn't even evil. And I'm only counting the kills dealt to me by 2 pc's that I stood no chance against. This also doesn't count other pc's or dm's. So what if you lose some battles, if you won them all what would be the point in playing? you already know the outcome.

This concept of creating a non-evil Lloth drow escapes me. It's very unlikely that you would have this happen without said drow being killed permanently by Lloth. I'm understanding that you rolled up your drow first following Lloth and part of the So'Riatin house correct?

[Lord Droke]

Lir, responded from work so it may be awhile before he posts again. You are correct, though.

[Dengar]

So... I have read your Opinions, and heard gripes and praise... My point of view, as Dengar, Amash, and Siva.

Dengar: I hate the drow, if I didn't know Elly, she would be as much of a target as Vilmi Alot of people gave Elly crap for a while, then it diminished down to nothing, that is unrealistic... It's a Drow, and not everyone who started playing within the last few months would feel comfortable around a drow, there are still some who don't like her after a year. I think the main problem, is that people don't roleplay thier characters IC, but more OOC, which is unfair, and no fun. You can be Chaotic Evil, and travel with a Paladin, so long as you never gave them a reason to doubt your "good" side... Why give Players the option to be evil, if you wont let them be evil?
Not all evil is cunning, and in the background lingering... But when I was killing anything that moved that was wrong. What DMs could have done, is put a ransom on my head, and had PCs hunt me... never happened, I was warned to stop, or be ousted. I would have been a great mass murderer!

(I'd like to add, the only reason I don't kill Elly, is because I know her friends would kill me!)



Siva: I find there is no place for Siva to go, unless I am in a group, but there is no group to travel with, the higher level Drow, Vilmi, Vildur, Drea, and Elly, all have their own agenda, and I am stuck at 4th level spawning 6th level monsters... I can't even go through a part of the bettle farm alone... You can argue that's my fault for making a drow, but why give the option, if there is nothing they can do? There is no Underdark (which I believe there should be, at least outside of the Drow city) for PCs to train and gain at least a few levels. Soon there will be no place on the surface, and you all, Drow, Evil, Good, or not, talk about fun... where is the fun?



Amash: I have had no problems with Amash, as an evil character, or with the DMs trying to keep me away from places they don't want me to be, I believe I have played him correctly, and I believe that if I ever do exact the will of my god, Dms, PC, and even NPCs will all have a problem... even if it doesn't effect them. So I ask, what's the point?

As ME: The point is, I spent money on a game to play, I found a better world than Avlis, and I have had fun in the past! Why now is everything falling apart? Why is everyone complaining about the Evil drow, but not the evil sorcerer next to them? Because IC they travel together? Because this wasn't a big deal till the Drow came?

It was a Big deal when Dengar did it, but not other people. Now it comes to light because the Drow actually are playing their characters, outside of the few "Good" drow? If this is what it's come to, I feel sorry for everyone.
DMs, and PCs.

Everyone wants to be super powerful eventually, and all of us want to have fun... Where is the fun? When you can't even play a character because everyone is so high level, that the minute they see you, you are dead? What's the point?

So where do we go? The idea that this plane is CG, that's fine, So Evil anything will have a problem, that's kool... but what about the lawful?