Evil PC's drow or otherwise

[Dengar]

I would also like to add, that I haven't really had a problem myself, outside of playing my Drow... The newer DMs to my knowledge have been doing a great job trying to get everyone in on the action.

Just wish they'd leave Amash to pray (prey) =)

[Lir'ana]

Lloth drow are not limitless, thus "constant" attacks are improbable and are not gonna happen.

Correct Lolth Drow are not limitless. But they are broken into many diffrent factions. Each faction would have its own agenda. Each house would make surface raids in order to try and gain Lolths favor. A drow raiding party does not need to be large. So between the houses present in the drow city raiding parties can be constant and would be as each house tries to gain more of Lolths favor especially with surfacers with in easy reach.

Again, not gonna happen on Hala. If you want to go play in a hack and slash world where this is acceptable, feel free. Unless it's an ambush overseen by a dm, you better damn well rp it.

Don't insult me and read that again. I openly said that it is not really possible to do that in a nwn pw and still have fun. Now if you think its hack and slash doesn't matter, that is drow lolth society.
I am speaking of lolth drow and how they can fit into a pw while still remaining correct lolth drow. I at no point said that IG they should be running around killing everyone. Just that they would normally kill a surfacer on sight before talking to them. The exception being a priestess who would probaly insult and toy with their prey a bit before blowing it up. Now why is it you respond with insult when all I am saying is that is how lolth drow would be not exactly how it should be in the game. I will come back to this.

Yet you still play your drow to get along with the surfacers?

Draeltin is a L/N drow. He is lawful by lolth drow standards meaning that if you don't get caught it didn't happen. As for the neutral I play it as he cares for himself. If doing an evil act benifits him all good. If being nice to someone benifits him all good. Also because of the books I found about drow IG I worked it into my story line. They said drow were coming to the surface seeking power. The book can be bought in Nagaritch book store its one of the history of drow books. Now how much power do you think a single drow is going to get with no underdark to roam and only the surface? and surfacers to deal with? So dealing with surfacers benifits Drae. Unlike the other drow he can still buy things from the pc stores he can still find out information from other pc's as well. Not to mention that since he was kicked out of his house and lolth drow hunt him now, there is no one else to associate with but surfacers.

This concept of creating a non-evil Lloth drow escapes me. It's very unlikely that you would have this happen without said drow being killed permanently by Lloth. I'm understanding that you rolled up your drow first following Lloth and part of the So'Riatin house correct?

First off Drae was never a follower of Lolth. Drae served his family the way he was trained and had beaten into him from birth. Drow noble families are all run by priestess who do the will of Lolth. So in following his house yes he did Lolths will. Now why would a god waste their time if the pawn is still doing what they want it to do? as for not being evil, the way I am running his L/N fits just as perfectly. Drow want power. They will do what ever they can to get it without getting caught. Now how long would a drow male last if he didn't bow down to a priestess? that is just plain stupidity. Getting killed does not benifit Drae. In all reality Drae should have been watching over his shoulder for Vildur because it is very common for an older brother to fall of some sudden death and then the 2nd born becomes the first born. Drow kill everyone, surfacers, other drow, older siblings ect... it does not matter. The only thing that matters is their benifit, what will gain them more power and their standing in lolth drow society.


Now how you responded to my post has made it very clear to me who you are. We both know I have a large personal issue with you that I am not going to air here. From what I see you are a pretty good dm. But to avoid conflict if you are going to run something and I am around please inform me and I will leave.

[Druid523]

Before things stray away from a friendly exchange of ideas, let me just say that I've often found that miscommunication is the cause for these discussions to break down, with people misinterpreting something or people taking things as insults or whatever.

I know it's not really my place to interpret what people are saying, but to DM D'art, I'd invite you to reread the whole paragraph, and not just focus on the line mentioning "no rp".

2) LOLTH DROW KILL SURFACERS There are very few exceptions to that. The So'Riatins understand that constantly attacking does not create any RP or fun but you must also understand that to play a Lolth drow correctly they would not talk to surfacers they would go straight for kill no rp nothing. That is Lolth drow, so already right there the So'Riatins have changed a major part of drow Lolth society to help fit into a nwn pw, just by talking to a pc before attacking.

Now, to Lir'ana, I don't believe DM D'Art was insulting anyone by what he said (though he could have chosen some better words to say it; saying stuff like "if you want to go somewhere else" and "damn" don't really help to convey anything constructive, even if your intent is to convey something constructive). I think DM D'Art was just emphasizing the point that going straight for the kill with no rp at all is not the best way to go about things, regardless of how things would be (or should be) in PnP or in a fantasy fiction book. Since we're all interacting with different players, having the rp is essential.

Now, all players who have a So'Riatin character respect that and do follow this "rule" already.

The So'Riatins understand that constantly attacking does not create any RP or fun.
The So'Riatins have changed a major part of drow Lolth society to help fit into a nwn pw, just by talking to a pc before attacking.

So no one is planning to start hack-and-slashing and abandon roleplay on Hala. In fact, I think the people running Drow characters have done an outstanding job protraying what it means to be Drow (and, more importantly, making it fun and exciting for everyone!).


Anyway, sorry to even bother stepping in like this. I realize it's not my place, and I have no right to piece apart what either of you have said or to try to make amends for either of you. But I really didn't want to see a very evocative conversation on playing evil characters breakdown over a misunderstanding.

-Andrew

[Public Enemy 1]

Dont be a vulture....learn your culture.Arkons explained already how Ysgard drow are to be portrayed,and they are not exactly the same as FR drows.

[Lord Droke]

He is lawful by lolth drow standards meaning that if you don't get caught it didn't happen. As for the neutral I play it as he cares for himself.

The only thing I haven't been able to understand is you say you are lawful by drow standards, well if you are lawful in this way then your not Nuetral you are evil. Having lived among your people for a good hundred years before leaving the city, and being what we can call Drow-Lawful, and then going to the surface and working with your evil preistess of Lloth sister for a good 20 IG years or so should have changed your initial alignment. In my opinion the influence of a few surfacers would not serve as a reason for a good 120 years or so of drow upbrining. As a freind and player in a lot of my old PNP games you know full well this never would have flew. You would have been dropped to LE before hitting 10th lvl probably even earlier and facing XP pentalties for the change (ah memories of 2nd ed.)
In truth man, I wish you never would have done that. We would be haveing so much fun right now had you not.

[Lord Droke]

good point public, in truth I beleive we are greyhawk drow, basically the same yet different. There is some info in the drow boards LIr check it out, good stuff.

[Lir'ana]

The only thing I haven't been able to understand is you say you are lawful by drow standards, well if you are lawful in this way then your not Nuetral you are evil.

Ok this is off point and not the initial purpose of this thread. What is stated above does not mean that drae has commited an evil act. It means he follows drow law. You do not need to commit evil acts to follow drow law they just help you survive.

and then going to the surface and working with your evil preistess of Lloth sister for a good 20 IG years or so should have changed your initial alignment.

First off my sister has not started commiting many evil acts until recently with the raids. She has been a biatch thats for sure but you have not actually done anything evil till recently. She even helped surfacers against the mino's on several occasions which she shouldn't have. SHe should have caused chaos if we are speaking of not following alignment.

In my opinion the influence of a few surfacers would not serve as a reason for a good 120 years or so of drow upbrining

What are you talking about? It was you who kicked me from the family not me leaving. I remember a bleeding drae on the side of the road. Drae was always loyal to his family till vilmi killed him and left him on the side of a road. With that I became hunted by Lolth drow and left with only surfacers to deal with. Now I have him stuck in some messed up limbo because he is hunted by lolth drow, should not be entering any towns or villages because he is drow. And now I'm getting complained at because the only rp or thing I can really do is with surfacers.


Now this is way off topic. I thought this thread was here to explain Lolth Drow and get some constructive idea's on how to keep lolth drow close to what they should be and keep it fun for everyone. Not sitting here discussing one pc? or going off on someones post. It seems people are taking this to seriously. This is a game, its supposed to be fun, if your not having fun there is a problem.

[Public Enemy 1]

I wouldnt exactly call choosing to cuddle with Raim,rather than help Vilmi that was being chased by Grimm to be killed too Loyal to your family and thats exactly why Arkon exposed you

[JAPC]

Well, lets see where I can go with this, I will try to address all that I can that has been discussed her, but I am sure I will miss some.

First off, Drow on Hala and Ysgard are just that. However Arkon and the team have laid down of how drow should be, is how it is. There are many things, from books, PnP campaigns and other things, that can not be done in NWN or on an online persistant world.

Raids. Drow are not stupid, they are cold, calculative and manipulative, and aren't going to get themselves into a situation that is "too big for their britches" in todays terms. Small raids may happen on farms, small houses in the middle of nowhere, or small camps of nomads, but not in major cities, that have hundreds or thousands of troops available.

Lolth drow kill surfacers. That's odd, considering my House Elg'caress drow never killed a single PC, and very few NPC's other than the standard hostile bandits goblins etc. And only once did she instigate a fight, in defense of a higher ranking loyalist of the same House. My dorw has been attacked by PC's since her first real level, she was killed by a PC surfacer at the beetle farms who feared her because she was drow. She's been killed countless other times just for being drow, and for the one fight she did instigate. Valsharess also taught us of House Elg'caress only when it was needed, not at every waking moment. Next to never did we go out in hunt to kill every single surfacer.

Drow wouldn't be allowed in any surface city etc. To an extent that is correct, but due to limitations and what was/has/is available IG a lot of that is impossible. When I started my drow, there was nothing more than the underground temple at the end of the drow caves, no merchants, nothing. And when Public started theirs, there wasn't even a drow caves or a temple. We have to some times make do with what we can, especailly at low levels, where there are limited quests available to advance in level, or add gold to our coffers. I'll also point out that the Drow society in the underground, keeps an open trade with surface civilizations, due to the fact that the Underdark is limited in what it is able to provide the drow society.

Often times in raids, survivors were captured and taken back to the underground, as slaves. It is quite common that there was two to three slaves per drow of every house. Obviously this is something that we are unable to do in the game for a number of reasons. Instead, we use cunning manipulation for our own purposes. The first PC that killed my drow, instead of going off and killing him later, he was manipulated into serving House Elg'caress, and my drow in particular.

Male drow are treated like crap in the drow society, and very seldom allowed to wander freely without a mistress not far from them. Male drows out without mistresses, are one of two things. Streea akh, or dobluth, A sucide group, not expected to return, or outcasts for dishonor to their family, or difference of views towards the Matriachal society of the drow. This is something in which we try to follow closely but due to OOC lmitations of avalablity to play by other characters leanency is given.

I'll stop at this for now as it's now 4 AM and I have to be up in two hours to get ready for work.

[Arkon]

Ok, this is going from a good post, to a personal attack post. This stops now or I will lock the thread.

Keep it constructive folks.

[silverdragonams]

good point public, in truth I beleive we are greyhawk drow.

You're city may have been misplaced, or broken away from greyhawk or whatever for whatever reason, but you are still Ysgardian Drow:

The Drow of Ysgard exist as a paradox to the norm of Prime Material World Drow. Shunned by their Prime World Kin because of thier decision to take a more moral high ground, they exist in a similar society on Ysgard, but without the associated bloodlust that most of the Prime Drow have until their anger has reached it's peak. They are more xenophobic than their Prime World brethren. Often social loners, they primarily just want to be left alone. Most drow do not possess the social skills necessary to survive unheeded on the surface. This coupled with their sensitive eyes and dark skin drives them to remain below the surface in their caverns, only to come out at night under the cover of darkness. This self imposed seclusion, coupled with their common lack of tolerance for bright lights and open spaces makes them feared and mistrusted by most other Ysgardian races. Considered evil by most, they are often hunted, berated, and attacked out of fear by many surface dwelling people. This has fostered in them a mistrust, anger, and at times intolerance of the surface dwelling races of Ysgard.

Alignment: Mostly Neutral to Evil

[DM D'Artagnan]

Again, not gonna happen on Hala. If you want to go play in a hack and slash world where this is acceptable, feel free. Unless it's an ambush overseen by a dm, you better damn well rp it.

Don't insult me and read that again. I openly said that it is not really possible to do that in a nwn pw and still have fun.

I said this because it was in fact happening on Hala, so these guidelines were posted. http://www.ysgardhala.org/viewtopic.php ... highlight=

Yet you still play your drow to get along with the surfacers?

Unlike the other drow he can still buy things from the pc stores he can still find out information from other pc's as well. Not to mention that since he was kicked out of his house and lolth drow hunt him now, there is no one else to associate with but surfacers.

Which by your own definition of drow, the surfacers ~shouldn't~ be chummy with drow pc's. Would it be more plausible to see that drow join a different house that's located in Drow City rather than to just defect outright to the surface? From Arkons definition of Ysgardian drow:

They are more xenophobic than their Prime World brethren. Often social loners, they primarily just want to be left alone. Most drow do not possess the social skills necessary to survive unheeded on the surface. This coupled with their sensitive eyes and dark skin drives them to remain below the surface in their caverns, only to come out at night under the cover of darkness. This self imposed seclusion, coupled with their common lack of tolerance for bright lights and open spaces makes them feared and mistrusted by most other Ysgardian races. Considered evil by most, they are often hunted, berated, and attacked out of fear by many surface dwelling people. This has fostered in them a mistrust, anger, and at times intolerance of the surface dwelling races of Ysgard.

Now how you responded to my post has made it very clear to me who you are. We both know I have a large personal issue with you that I am not going to air here. From what I see you are a pretty good dm. But to avoid conflict if you are going to run something and I am around please inform me and I will leave.

I'm sorry to hear you have issues with people here. You don't know me nor do you have to leave any event that I run. You are more than welcome to be involved in any event I'm a part of. We are just discussing things here and you are always welcome to pm me if you feel you'd like to speak in private.

[Lord Droke]

The Drow of Ysgard exist as a paradox to the norm of Prime Material World Drow. Shunned by their Prime World Kin because of thier decision to take a more moral high ground, they exist in a similar society on Ysgard, but without the associated bloodlust that most of the Prime Drow have until their anger has reached it's peak. They are more xenophobic than their Prime World brethren. Often social loners, they primarily just want to be left alone. Most drow do not possess the social skills necessary to survive unheeded on the surface. This coupled with their sensitive eyes and dark skin drives them to remain below the surface in their caverns, only to come out at night under the cover of darkness. This self imposed seclusion, coupled with their common lack of tolerance for bright lights and open spaces makes them feared and mistrusted by most other Ysgardian races. Considered evil by most, they are often hunted, berated, and attacked out of fear by many surface dwelling people. This has fostered in them a mistrust, anger, and at times intolerance of the surface dwelling races of Ysgard.

Alignment: Mostly Neutral to Evil

Arkon made that post over a year ago. Do to changes in plot line over the past year, as well as the very face of Hala, things have changed slightly.

Rumors abound about the death of the Valsharess. Some say it was the driders who were responsible. Others say a band of surface dwellers killed her as she battled against the Creation of the Orb of War trying to save her people.

One sentiment runs rampant the hearts of most drow. Revenge.

The surface must pay.

The surface must learn once again, to fear us.

Do I seek to be Matron? No, I do not. I seek only revenge.

Check out the drow boards if you can, there is great info showing how we got to our current state. I would also add that the recent drow activity has not been entirely p.c. based. In fact if I look at like all my drow's CVC, I have only realy done this a couple of times with out a DM present. Let's go through a couple. If anyone thinks I handled them wrong please tell me.

1.Liera, just outside of New Nantes - In earlier events had allready put Vil and Liera at odds. Running into her alone was to good of a chance for Vil to lay the smack down on someone who has shown them selves as her enemy. The actual truth is I kiled her by accident with WOF (This was before WOF was and issue), I meant to dissmiss her summon.
2.Elly- I have killed Elly countless times. Often these battles are instigated by her. I think one of the reasons he altered his drow was so he could create an arch nemisis for Vil. Now as he begins the slow crawl from 15th to epic levels, things will get more interesting as his good drow grows in power.
3.Elly and Leira in Mirtho - Let's see vilmi walks into Mirtho invisable. Vilmis sees her traitor sister and a known surface enemy standing over the corpse of her freshly created Drow sister (Darkrains So'Riatin), I dont think talk or deceit and cunning were the right choice here. Dispatching the two and getting her sister the hell out of there was.

4.I attacked a group of random P.C.'s in Mirtho, killed some let some live and left. Said P.C.'s were argueing over some OOC/IC (theft of items) crap there minds were not on the game, I reoriented them.

5.Keira (I think that was the name) in the White wood ant cave. This poor soul was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. I made a mistake here, I forgot to immidiately set to dislike, do to the fact that my intent was not to kill (Was also a little overexited with hunt). I through darkness, cast harm ( my plan was to then run away laughing), which fails. I get set to dislike and attacked, I kill. This was actually a good fight as well, this char managed to knock me down. All though I killed this char, he showed me a good fight. Vil would think twice before attacking this PC alone again.

I think that about covers the people I have killed with out DM presence. Five occasion one screw up, yet I have yet to see any sort of complaint by this player. Sorry I will do better next time whoever you were.

Other then that there has been a DM involved in every other CVC attack I have been involved in (not counting constant butt-kickings by Niko and Grimm or fights with Kegbuster.)
I dont think these five attacks constituate me being a senless killer. In fact the attacks done with DM present often required the DM to give me a little nudge. I have even had a DM ask "Why didn't you kill her, she is a surfacer?" The truth is I would rather be trying to do stuff in the background, things of late have just not worked that way entirely however, and just because I have been doing things openly does not mean I do not have secrets in the background as well. I am not playing stupid evil as it has been so loveingly titled. (Is there a stupid-good?)
Allso fear has been established, raids will slow. Now that the proper enviroment has been created, Drow pc's can truly experience the challenge of playing evil drow.

[silverdragonams]

Arkon made that post over a year ago. Do to changes in plot line over the past year, as well as the very face of Hala, things have changed slightly.

You completely missed the point. These events do not change your history or the fact that you are still Ysgardian Drow.

[Lord Droke]

One more thing

Raids. Drow are not stupid, they are cold, calculative and manipulative, and aren't going to get themselves into a situation that is "too big for their britches" in todays terms. Small raids may happen on farms, small houses in the middle of nowhere, or small camps of nomads, but not in major cities, that have hundreds or thousands of troops available.

You are absolutely correct. For the record no cities or large settlements have been attacked, they have been threatened (which means nothing). Drow raids I have been involved in have been centered in Mirtho rest a small settlement with very few guards, no walls, and no real defences. I am happy to see that the good PC's have caught on to this and are takeing steps to remedy it. Props all! Find them funds!

[Lord Droke]

Send a pm for this type of stuff.


*edited by D'Artagnan

[Xanthalas]

Okay, My experience as a drow has been largely fun. No complaints really, a few miscommunicated circumstances here and there, but all water under the bridge. I have roleplayed Rykolyn with my very small amount of Drow knowledge, coming as a drow player who didn't even know who Drizzt, was, I haven't read those books, Nor any other. What I -DO- know has come from online researching learning how to say F*** you in Drow, ((said it to the Valsharess once, hee hee!)) what they eat, and their social stuff, ((was posted elsewhere the linnks I found too,)) Really nonchalant approach, I know, One thing that confuses me, is Where Ryk is from exactly, I honestly don't know, so I just don't bring it up, everything that has happened since his creation is what ha s shaped him into what he is now. That being said, I know, My personal approach on playing Rykolyn is very simple,

First and Formost he is a Wizard, That is his vocation, that is his most concious thought, and almost always what's on his mind. Magic!

Second he is a Socially Awkward Drow, ((As other drow know, and mostly Arkon, i've done some things that have proven to show Ryk as socially retarded, hee hee!)

Thirdly, he is his alignment, played from the perspective of a Wizard, with Drow blood.

Final, all of these are played in conjuction of the memories of all that has happened to him, Paranoia, apathy, large lack of compassion.

That is what Rykolyn is!

Not sure what kind of Drow he is, or is supposed to be,
Not sure if I fit anyone's specific mold for one.
I know I have had fun, all I try to do is RP Rykolyn, as a whole. And hope Arkon doesn't beat me senseless for the names I call him on the DM channel.

[Lord Droke]

*sighs*so be it

[Psye Shaar]

Wherever the city lies it is still the same Ysgardian drow as was in the previous city and will continue to be so until Arkon says otherwise

This forum passed it's sell-by-date some time ago, so any further discussion on what the drow currently are and what their city is can be done on the drow forum. That's what it's for.

Topic locked.