Roleplaying a High Wisdom Score

[Druid523]

I'll make this question of mine brief, though I hope your answers are not!

From my understanding, having a 10 in any stat (Str, Con, etc.) indicates average or normal ability. Having an 18 in any stat is far above normal!

Now...how does someone go about role-playing someone with above average Wisdom, (say 18 Wisdom)? What about someone with 30+ Wisdom?

I have some thoughts on the matter, but would like to hear from other players and DMs first!

-Andrew (player of Sceluscio Potementia...character with high wisdom)

[ace4lyyfe]

A very good and interesting question. My character(Hafgan) has an exceptional wisdom score, above 30+, and sometimes I find it hard to rp him. Sure, in some select cases you can do a wisdom check in an event and a dm will tell you some tidbit of imformation, but to actually have your character act wise is something entirely different.

My thoughts on how one should roleplay a character with a high wisdom is that he is in a sense, 'street smart' so to speak. He is knowledgable and wise in the ways of the world/plane, and he isn't gullible. A player with a high wisdom would also technically be a good mediator and moderator as he could use his insight to see exactly what should happen in a situation. He is always aware of his surrounding and can normally perdict the outcome of something that is happening.

And as to the difference between roleplaying a character with 18 wisdom, and 30 wisdom, is that the character is street smart x 10. I would also think this would give the character an almost haughty attitude if not for him being so wise he would know that being haughty wouldn't do him any good, and would just make people not like him which wouldn't be good.

Example: a rogue with 20 inteligence and 10 wisdom. Fighter with an inteligence of 10 and a wisdom of 10. Cleric with an inteligence of 10 and a wisdom of 22.

Rogue: hey! we got two hundred seventy eight coins from the last dungeon, split three ways, we each get ninety two coins each with a couple left over.

Fighter: er... *scratches head* sounds good to me!

Cleric: *nods slowly* very well, as long as I get to keep the two left over.

Rogue: hey! now that we're done splitting the loot, lets go over into the cave called 'the cave of death' with the human corpses strung up in the trees outside!

Fighter: errr... *scratches head* sounds good to me!

Cleric: hmm.... *tilts his head* I think I'll pass, I don't feel like visiting the gods today.

Rogue and Fighter: stupid priest *both run off together into the cave of death*

The cleric used his wisdom to realize that fighting in a cave with corpse outside would probably mean he would become one of those corpses as well. The rogue can do math such as splitting up loot, but he has no premonition that he's about to be cooked. And the fighter is just plain clueless and just goes around swinging his sword.

[Akai]

You have just put your finger on what I hate most about playing wizards... having to try to play a character who's a lot smarter than I am! A 30-intelligence wizard ought to be able to solve puzzles in a snap and deduce logical conclusions that aren't at all clear to me, not to mention remembering things that I cannot... with the result that I hardly ever play wizards.

Clerics are a little easier, as I can perceive a high wisdom as largely reflecting a high willpower and moral certainty, the stuff of legendary Christian martyrs, and that's a lot easier to RP. To the extent that wisdom is also supposed to reflect common sense and intuition, the same problem as above applies. I generally try not to play characters with astronomical wisdom scores.

On a slightly related note, what about charisma? A character with a high charisma is supposed to be a natural leader: Adolph Hitler was used as an example of a character with an 18 charisma. But what if you don't (as I don't) actually have any gifts of leadership? When I created Soleis I made him charisma-based, figuring that even if I cannot actually portray a high charisma, trying to would be an interesting RP challenge for me; and as long as other characters reacted to his IC charisma rather than my OOC charisma, any flaws in my portrayal would not actually matter.

What I've found, though, is that characters do react to my portrayal rather than to his stat, so, again... although Soleis himself is too interesting a character to give up... I don't see any more high-charisma characters in my future.

Strength, consititution, and dexterity-based characters for me, from here on out... the only stats that the game engine can actually portray for a character even if the player lacks.

[ace4lyyfe]

On a slightly related note, what about charisma? A character with a high charisma is supposed to be a natural leader: Adolph Hitler was used as an example of a character with an 18 charisma. But what if you don't (as I don't) actually have any gifts of leadership? When I created Soleis I made him charisma-based, figuring that even if I cannot actually portray a high charisma, trying to would be an interesting RP challenge for me; and as long as other characters reacted to his IC charisma rather than my OOC charisma, any flaws in my portrayal would not actually matter.

And that is my argument that a players character always reflects themselves. If you rp an evil bastard, no matter how much you deny it, you are either an evil bastard or you could imagine being one. Same thing goes for being a goody two shoes, even if you're a mean, cold hearted jerk, you could still imagine being one, or doing an occasional good-hearted act.

[ace4lyyfe]

bah, double post.

[zsenf]

Wis and Cha are about the hardest stats to RP, IMHO. Int means logic, math, stuff like that. Wis is intuition, understanding, creativity. Do you have any books on Zen Buddhism? I think that's the most wise philosophy there is, so I use that to RP my char's natural 18 wis. Things like being willing to learn, not overestimating yourself, not underestimating a situation, seeking long term results, cutting through petty BS to get to the bottom line, and having a few zen sayings handy in your head are most of RPing wis for me. Hope that helps!

Oh, and Ace, if you don't know how to RP your mental stats, don't expect folks to just respect your numbers. We got a couple ppl in our guild who RP pretty much the opposite of thier high stats, but they will whip out a die roll to show off the modifier and just expect folks to kiss thier asses.

[silverdragonams]

On a slightly related note, what about charisma? A character with a high charisma is supposed to be a natural leader: Adolph Hitler was used as an example of a character with an 18 charisma. But what if you don't (as I don't) actually have any gifts of leadership? When I created Soleis I made him charisma-based, figuring that even if I cannot actually portray a high charisma, trying to would be an interesting RP challenge for me; and as long as other characters reacted to his IC charisma rather than my OOC charisma, any flaws in my portrayal would not actually matter.

I can't say much about wisdom as that has always been difficult for me, but charisma can be portrayed lots of ways.

Some people tend to concentrate on the physical beauty aspect. Some people tend to go overboard with that. I still have nightmares from when it was popular to translate your sorceress's charisma score into a cup size and put it into her character discription .

Some people tend to focus on the leadership aspect and see their high charisma character as something of a aristocrat (I think Lily/Imp does an awesome job playing this type of charisma).

I started playing Sara as "the girl next door" with her charisma translating into having a lot of empathy for the people and creatures around her. But, as she gained levels and charisma points I've also gained opportunities to further RP different aspects of that stat, like being given a title and more recently a position of leadership.

I think that happens to every character as they get older and have more opportunities to grow. The difference between an 18 score and a 30 score in any stat (but especially Int, Wis, and Charisma) is not easy to RP, but is very much reflected in your character's position in society. If that makes sense?

And it can go the other way too. If you want to show that your character has a high Int, Wis, Cha, why not take on some ic responsibilities that will give them a place in society? Build a temple, teach magic, start a guild, etc.

BTW, Akai, I think you do a wonderful job RPing Soleis and he is plenty charismatic!

[ChukchiDog]

A couple of quick responses to what's been written so far:

I definitely do not agree that having a very high wisdom would make a character have or tend to have a haughty mindset. That would depend on othr factors in the character's personality. Certainly the stereotypical "Wise One" archetype is far from haughty, probably because people assume (rightly or wrongly) that someone wise knows better than to be (not merely better than to act) haughty.

Asking for other peoples takes on this is a cool idea, and can be very useful in that it may bring up good points you hadn't thought of, but keep in mind that this is all opinion and sift through and find what fits best for your character.

As for charisma, my feeling is that everyone charismatic is not a good leader any more than everyone charismatic is beautiful. Two characters with very high charisma could look and act very differently; their magnetism could be based on any number of different factors which the player gets to decide.

But I do agree that it is hard to have charisma taken into account unless you let the other players know what that stat is, and it might be useful to come up with unobtrusive ways to do that. You could send a tell giving the stat, or do a charisma check upon meeting a new person, or just say *he is extremely handsome* or "she has the most exquisite voice* or *he has an air of command about him that is hard to resist*. Once players know what your charisma is, they should take it into account in their dealings with you.

The age-old problem of having a character that is good at X when the player isn't can be greatly alleviated by the support and respect of the other players, who if they're good will take up the slack and react to your character as if they are good at X, but only if it is made clear what you are trying to convey.

All for now!

[ChukchiDog]

<< And that is my argument that a players character always reflects themselves. If you rp an evil bastard, no matter how much you deny it, you are either an evil bastard or you could imagine being one. Same thing goes for being a goody two shoes, even if you're a mean, cold hearted jerk, you could still imagine being one, or doing an occasional good-hearted act. >>

That there's a whole other thread; go start it, if you like!

[ace4lyyfe]

Oh, and Ace, if you don't know how to RP your mental stats, don't expect folks to just respect your numbers. We got a couple ppl in our guild who RP pretty much the opposite of thier high stats, but they will whip out a die roll to show off the modifier and just expect folks to kiss thier asses. Rolling Eyes

Whoa there fello, I won't be expecting you to kiss my ass. And as for me not knowing how to rp my mental stats.... 'ello, dey ain't mah mental stats. They're my 'characters' mental stats, and I said I have a hard time some of the time rp'ing him, not that I couldn't rp him.

I definitely do not agree that having a very high wisdom would make a character have or tend to have a haughty mindset. That would depend on othr factors in the character's personality. Certainly the stereotypical "Wise One" archetype is far from haughty, probably because people assume (rightly or wrongly) that someone wise knows better than to be (not merely better than to act) haughty.

I said that they 'might' act haughty because they're so wise if not for the fact that a wise person would know that being haughty isn't profitable.

Some people tend to concentrate on the physical beauty aspect. Some people tend to go overboard with that. I still have nightmares from when it was popular to translate your sorceress's charisma score into a cup size and put it into her character discription Rolling Eyes .

heh heh, I agree, that would give most people nightmares. People with low charisma can still be good looking too; charisma in that case could be their personality as well, such as they have a very annoying and haughty persona that looks down on other people. Also, someone with a extremely high Charisma could also be arse-ugly, but they have a charismatic personality that draws people to them.

That there's a whole other thread; go start it, if you like! Smile

I'm sorely tempted to, as soon as this thread dies out.

[ChukchiDog]

<< We got a couple ppl in our guild who RP pretty much the opposite of thier high stats, but they will whip out a die roll to show off the modifier and just expect folks to kiss thier asses. >>

Yeah; what I said applies to people who are really trying to RP the stat or the area of expertise; if you don't bother trying, then shame on you! There are going to be bozos in every field of endeavor; all you can do is try to avoid 'em.

[ChukchiDog]

<< I would also think this would give the character an almost haughty attitude... >>

That's where I disagree, and this is my point: Whether or not a person has a haughty (or almost haughty) attitude has nothing to do with how wise they are, in my opinion.

<< ...if not for him being so wise he would know that being haughty wouldn't do him any good. >>

Though yes, I do agree that a haughty person, if wise, would be more likely to hide his haughtiness.

[ChukchiDog]

And now, an actual answer!

Just checked my shorter oxford; the definition stressed good sense and sound judgement. Someone who is good at problem solving; i.e. seeing the best way to achieve a goal. Also practical.

Gildan has a higher-than-average wisdom, and I try to play him as a wise man. His wisdom is along the lines of the above: He gives good advice.

But for extremely high values of wisdom, and particularly in a fantasy game that has things like magic and Psionics, I think one way to interperet wisdom is to go a more esoteric route, in line with mysticism.

"But the fool on the hill sees the sun going down, and the eyes in his head see the world spinning round". The fool may not be intelligent, but he can see things in a different way; he can make the jump from the sun seeming to go down and say "What if it was me who was moving and not the sun?" The fool is wise.

In my view Einstein had a very high intelligence, but he also had a very high wisdom.

I think a case could be made for the wiser a person is, the more of the "big picture" he sees, the more he understands the inter-relatedness of things, and the more he is able to make those intuitive leaps that result in the creation of something new. He is able to see connections others may not; he is able to interperet and extrapolate things from what he perceives very well, and come up with other things that way, new ideas. I would think an extremely wise person, unless he was also very intelligent, might have a hard time explaining what he understands, or why he understands it to be so.

A very wise Druid can feel the balance of nature, he understands what everything in nature, the animals and the plants, are likely to do in any given circumstance, and how they relate to one another; his understanding is so complete that it seems as if he can predict the future and control his surroundings. He can pass safely where others cannot because he understands his environment. Wisdom could be played as a very deep understanding of something...nature or human nature or magical power.

Something to discuss.

[Lord Droke]

The high wisdom is very difficult to discern how to play. A great topic.

I guess one thing that no one has mentioned at all that I thought of is Alignment as always plays a big factor in playing a high wisdom score. For example, take A CE cleric of Cyric. This char would have a pretty high wis of course, but CE? Wisdom and chaos never seem to mix, especially CE. There are many ways this could be played, but it can be more diffacult then others, props to the people who can play a CE or CN char with a high wis. The point I am trying to make is that an CG chars high wis would be played much differently than a CE's high wis.

Wisdom can be played in many ways. It all really depends on the type of char, one solution to a CE cleric is the wis stat could be played as the higher the wis the higher the connection to his/her deity. So this play style would not necassarily mean the char would always be outwardly wis, more so then most but could have the tendency to be rash at times and such. However they would often seem detached from everything else, as if on a higher plane yet right there next to you, if this is kind of what you were referring to as haughty Ace I see how it could be viewed that way. This is my favorite way to play a high wis, because it can work with any alignment and any class, a psion or druids high wis could be played similarly. Zsenf, I love how you bring Zen and other philosophies, Taoism talks a lot about detachment as well.

The Aes Sedai in Robert Jordans wheel of time, with there ageless and emotionless faces show signs of a high wis, as you read the books though you realize there not all wise enough not to know to run into the lions den, but though there connection to the one power they would still have high wisdoms stats often shown as detachment. The main charactor, Rand, even enters a relaxed trance light state to use the power.

For those who have not read these novels I would use Jedi in Star Wars as an example, not all Jedi or Sith are necassarily humble wise men like Yoda, but they all show a connection to there surroundings giving them a zen like state of awareness and detachment.

Oh, lol, and Ace......

If you rp an evil bastard, no matter how much you deny it, you are either an evil bastard or you could imagine being one.

So you think I am in real life a cold heartless woman who thinks men as lesser beings and enjoys sacrificing lesser creatures (everything esle) in her spare time? You think I really enjoy watching people suffer? That I am a saddist who carries whips around with me when I go out of the house? Or that I could picture my self being one?
LOL
I can play one man, that doesn't mean I am or want to be one, or picture myself as one. I look at it as I am playing a part in an epic movie, just because I can play a part does not mean I am, want to be, or envision my self as the character I am playing. Yes I enjoy playing the antagonist, but I can just as easily play a paladin (wouldn't that be weird, me playing a paladin)

[Lord Droke]

Exactly what I am referring to Chuk.....

[T'Holoth Shadowborn]

Honestly I don't really think you can.

D&D origionally saw us viewing someone with 18 INT as a genius. Archwizards had 18 int. Some select few had fabled 19 INT.

Same with other classes and their prime stats. A fighter with 19 strength or a rogue with 19 dex were seen as touched by the gods.

I think it was heros and ledgends where I read that Hercules, reknown for his strength, had a strength of 24 or 25.

Now thats not at all uncommon. I simply don't think we can really guage or properly roleplay somene with 30 wisdom or int. It's just too far out there. Heck stat wise many gods dont even have that.

[ace4lyyfe]

So you think I am in real life a cold heartless woman who thinks men as lesser beings and enjoys sacrificing lesser creatures (everything esle) in her spare time? You think I really enjoy watching people suffer? That I am a saddist who carries whips around with me when I go out of the house? Or that I could picture my self being one?
LOL
I can play one man, that doesn't mean I am or want to be one, or picture myself as one. I look at it as I am playing a part in an epic movie, just because I can play a part does not mean I am, want to be, or envision my self as the character I am playing. Yes I enjoy playing the antagonist, but I can just as easily play a paladin (wouldn't that be weird, me playing a paladin)

meh, really didn't phrase that right. I in no way think that IRL you'rea cold heartless woman who enjoys sacrificing lesser creatures in her spare time. What I meant is that in order for someone to play a certain kind of character, they have to be able to invision what that kind of character/person would do.

For instance, if someone wanted to play a charismatic leader, IRL, they would have to have an idea of what a charismatic leader would do/think/say. The same thing goes for someone who plays an evil character, they would have to be able IRL to imagine or think of what an evil person would do. And yet again, the same for a high wisdom or wise person, they would have to IRL imagine or think of wise decisions, but IRL, you may not make the wisest choices for your character. So therefore, if someone was trying to play a wise person with a wisdom of 30+, and yet IRL couldn't think of the wisest thing to do, it would be a real dilema.

For instance, say your 30 wisdom cleric is the head of a party and he's in a dm event where there were a bunch of people sitting outside a cave. The dm spawned a couple monsters and even though they almost overwhelm the party, they still manage to kill them all. Then the dm makes an emote *you hear a faint but distant howling and chanting from inside the cave.* Now, the cleric has to make a decision, does he go inside the cave with his party balls out, or does he go back to the city and ask for help from the city guard? The player behind the Character says," what the hell, lets go for it" and runs into the cave. He promptly gets pwned and dp'd with the rest of his party by swarms of monsters because the dm thinks/wants the party to go back to the city for help. Now then, the cleric in the dms eyes made an un-wise decision. He didn't heed the horrid sounds from the cave and charged in like a maniac. Now, in order for the character to have made a wise choice, his player would have had to have a small bit of an idea what a wise person would do. He would have to think,"hmm... we almost got killed and we havn't even gotten inside the cave, we better head back to the city."

I hope that example kinda shows what I mean.

And yes, that would be extremely strange if you started walking around with a cute little LG paladin in shiny armor.

Now thats not at all uncommon. I simply don't think we can really guage or properly roleplay somene with 30 wisdom or int. It's just too far out there. Heck stat wise many gods dont even have that.

The only way to do it would be to raise the bar. You would have to consider a wisdom of 18 as normal, and a wisdom of 30 as extremely wise, and that just won't work. NWN dropped the ball big time when it came to doing everything right with game mechanics and whatnot, so it's to be expected that it won't follow exactly along with D&D. We just have to roll with it and rp it the best we can.

[Dengar]

Hi you all... If the Dm's don't want this here, just delete it!

My take on Wisdom, or better yet, all stats. Why not here, almost there anyway... we can do sub topics soon.

You have a 10 Wis. That is Average. What is average?\

As far as I know, Average Inteligence is knowing Nuetral or involved, good from evil, chaotic from lawful!

Wisdom, would be better recognized by the incite they obtain, and the way they utilize their perception.


Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution, you could say are the easiest to RP

Strength: You're strong... you can be dumb as the nine hells, but still pull through.

Dexterity: The higher it goes, the quicker your actions, the more limber you become, as well as your balance, and even (cause we know you love it) grace.

Constitution: Your health, well being, and resistance to outside viral, or poison intrusions on your body, and so with the speed of your recovery.

Inteligence: Your ability to solve problems, puzzles, and basic math. As inteligence gets higher, your understanding becomes more focused.

Wisdom: The Ability of comprehending situations faster than the others would. The chance to see more "of the big picture", as was said. Wise men don't only belong in this catagory. Psions use wisdom for understanding certain parts of humans and nature. Where as a Cleric, as was said, was more intune with his/her God.

Charisma: Takes a different turn alltogether. Scorcerers Need it for Spells... or so the game says... Why would someone need to look good for that?
For a Scorcerer, I would guess, it would increase the chances of someone failing to see through their magic. (I would like to know the ruling on that one.)

So there is my take.

Dengar "The Halfing Drow" Priest of Cyric!
Bee

[Xanthalas]

Alright, This is a tough one, since like alignment, there are a large amount of subjectivities.

Let's look at one thing first.

The attached skills,

Insight, (Perception, Spot, Listen)
Are all Wisdom based.
A High Wisdom beget's Intuition.

Another thing.
NATURAL Abilities are true to the character's personality.
Where as magical or other means, only enhance it's force.
That being said, 30+'s still exist. And that should be regarded as T'holoth said, "Legendary"
And correct me if I'm wrong, but after level 20, Your character is a Legend. Hence the word "Epic" being applied. Due to game mechanics, there are some balancing issues derived from that, But even then, a 30 in a stat is double someone who is considered "Above average"

But even if let's make the average PC, average and not above average, you're still twice as wise!

Now, there's alot of things that could be tied to it,

Every stat has more then one application.

Take Charisma,

Beauty, Or Charm.

I've known some ugly fucking people, Talk their way out of Federal Crimes.

Then on the other hand, I've known incredible beauties, be about as likeable as a dead toad.

But what's attached to Charisma?

Sorcery.

So there's an inner spirit in there as well,

Of course, no char should have such black and white views, and the gradient's are what grant personalities their greatness.

So here's an easy way to cope with High stats.


I'll use Ryk as an Example.

Very high Int,
So would he do naturally stupid things?
Like would he trade 3 coins for 1? etc.

So when looking at my stats, (All of them, not just my high one,)

I make sure any one action in question. doesn't reflect badly on one of them.

Of course Physical (Str,Dex,Con) Are a little easier to handle,
But the other's can be dealt with as such.

Ask yourself

Would taking this course of action be INTELLIGENT?
Or
Would taking this course of action be WISE?

Charisma is a bit more gray obviously, but you get the picture.

Xai has a high wisdom, so I roleplay intuition, and philosophical pursuit.
Ryk has a high intelligence, so he thinks things through. (Those that DM for me, know I sometimes ask some very specific questions. Seemingly irrelevant at times.)

Hope that helps.

[Akai]

Anyone remember what I thought was the stupidest statistic in the entire AD&D game?

Comeliness.

What, in E. Gary Gygax's world, players aren't allowed to *decide* what their characters look like?

Bugged me immensely.

But it did point out that beauty is only loosely tied to charisma. Look up charisma in the dictionary (*envies Chuk's Shorter Oxford*) and there is absolutely no mention of appearance.

Beauty and attractiveness are often considered synonymous, but, in fact, they are not.

[Druid523]

Thank you, everyone, for the responses so far! They've been very stimulating.

I suddenly realized I had access to the 3.5 Player's Handbook, and looked to see what was said there:


Intelligence

Intelligence determines how well your character learns and reasons.
This ability is important for wizards because it affects how many spells they can cast, how hard their spells are to resist, and how powerful their spells can be. It’s also important for any character who wants to have a wide assortment of skills.

You apply your character’s Intelligence modifier to:
- The number of languages your character knows at the start of the game.
- The number of skill points gained each level. (But your character always gets at least 1 skill point per level.)
- Appraise, Craft, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Forgery, Knowledge, Search, and Spellcraft checks. These are the skills that have Intelligence as their key ability.

Wisdom

Wisdom describes a character’s willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition. While Intelligence represents one’s ability to analyze information, Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one’s surroundings. An “absentminded professor” has low Wisdom and high Intelligence. A simpleton (low Intelligence) might still have great insight (high Wisdom). Wisdom is the most important ability for clerics and druids, and it is also important for paladins and rangers. If you want your character to have acute senses, put a high score in Wisdom.

You apply your character’s Wisdom modifier to:
- Will saving throws (for negating the effect of charm person and
other spells).
- Heal, Listen, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks. These are the skills that have Wisdom as their key ability.

Charisma

Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting. Charisma is most important for paladins, sorcerers, and bards. It is also important for clerics, since it affects their ability to turn undead.

You apply your character’s Charisma modifier to:
- Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Perform, and Use Magic Device checks. These are the skills that have Charisma as their key ability.
- Checks that represent an attempt to influence others.
- Turning checks for clerics and paladins attempting to turn zombies, vampires, and other undead.

The Player's Handbook even had a boxed-off section mirroring our own discussion, and focused specifically on Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma:


INTELLIGENCE, WISDOM, AND CHARISMA

You can use your character’s Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores to guide you in roleplaying your character. Here is some background (just guidelines) about what these scores can mean.

A smart character (one with high Intelligence) is curious, knowledgeable, and prone to using big words. A character with a high Intelligence but low Wisdom may be smart but absentminded, or knowledgeable but lacking in common sense. A character with a high Intelligence but a low Charisma may be a know-it-all or a reclusive scholar. A smart character lacking in both Wisdom and Charisma may put her foot in her mouth often.
A character with a low Intelligence mispronounces and misuses words, has trouble following directions, or fails to get the joke.

A character with a high Wisdom score may be sensible, serene, “in tune,” alert, or centered. A character with a high Wisdom but low Intelligence may be aware, but simple. A character with high Wisdom but low Charisma knows enough to speak carefully and may become an advisor (or “power behind the throne”) rather than a leader. The wise character lacking in both Intelligence and Charisma is uncouth and unsophisticated.
A character with a low Wisdom score may be rash, imprudent, irresponsible, or “out of it.”

A character with high Charisma may be attractive, striking, personable, and confident. A character with high Charisma but a low Intelligence can usually pass herself off as knowledgeable, until she meets a true expert. A charismatic character lacking in both Intelligence and Wisdom is likely to be shallow and unaware of others’ feelings.
A character with low Charisma may be reserved, gruff, rude, fawning, or simply nondescript.

[Xanthalas]

Anyone remember what I thought was the stupidest statistic in the entire AD&D game?

Comeliness.

What, in E. Gary Gygax's world, players aren't allowed to *decide* what their characters look like?

Bugged me immensely.

But it did point out that beauty is only loosely tied to charisma. Look up charisma in the dictionary (*envies Chuk's Shorter Oxford*) and there is absolutely no mention of appearance.

Beauty and attractiveness are often considered synonymous, but, in fact, they are not.

I agree, in that context, It doesn't make alot of sense, But one of the first things about Mr. Gygax's methods, Is they were always intended to be guidelines to pick and choose from for a certain group. (Said almost verbatim in his 1st edition books.) I think the Comeliness trait, as silly as it is, Is more of an 'extra' to allow for those who can't, won't, or don't think of their own decisions. I'm guilty of doing that, since some characters don't have much relevance in their looks to their actual personality. (Not always the case.)

Basic bottom line, is that there will always be, "Some" or "In-case" Or such in RP and the systems connected to it. Just like life, There's alot of gray areas to deal with. Biggest recommendation, is to know what -not- to do, then approach what is doable, With that ever so glorified "common sense" that's heralded. That tends to be a good start, and remember to have fun.

Some odd examples of strange statistic/alignment experiences, that brokoe no rules, but had to strech a few narrow minds..

The Troll Shaman, Sorcerer levels and a high Charisma,
Uh. simple enough, It happens often, but where is that Charisma?
Think Witchdoctor, May not be intelligent, or even be all that focused. But they know how to act to almost -rule- a villiage, It's in -how- they act.

The Chaotic Aligned Wizard.
For some reason, Chaotic Alignment has gone from their political mentality, to become almost synonymous with actual mental state. Now although not intrinsically wrong, That doesn't mean a CN Wizard isn't a very methodical and practised Wizard, He may just be completely anarchistic against -Organized- guilds. and prefer to work alone. Or conversely. The Lone Monk, Lawful by decree, means they are dedicated to their "Art" be it Martial or Faith, That doesn't mean they won't break laws. It does however have to be doing so in Loyalty to his own "Art" that he may do it, or such. ((Lwaful's tend to not be very disruptive.)) For instance, the LE Assassin, (As in the mindset, not the PrC) He may be very Lawful and Loyal to his city, but still break laws to -another- city, IE, taking out a rival Guild, Etc.

They mentioned absent minded professor, (High INT, Low WIS)
The opposite, could be quite obvious in the bumbling old Sage,
He may not know how to build say, a cart.
But he would however probably be pretty intuitive when it comes to say Scouting or such, or various things.


There are so many things under each Statistic, that it's okay to be unique.

As silverdragon mentioned, high charisma may not have anything to do with your appearance physically. But people will still -like- you.
so it could be your force of personality, courageous, and Strong-spirited.
Though, a balance of the two, or even the other extreme is -just as acceptable-

High Intelligence.
Here's something. I have a relatively high INT Druid, (Hawk)
But people think he's next to retarded. Why?
Because he doesn't speak Common very proficiently.
But those who have hung around him enough, have notice he's quite skilled, and pretty understanding. he learns quickly. Even if he does speak in the third person.

Anyways. Hopefully some minds have been broadened. Since the main thing is to have fun, and the rules have been pretty well covered by the Team in the Rules forum, I think a little welcome to diversity is good.

[ChukchiDog]

Akai wrote: << Look up charisma in the dictionary (*envies Chuk's Shorter Oxford*)... >>

Envy is understandable; my Shorter Oxford is enormous!

[zsenf]

I got a little question here, something I've been doing that MIGHT piss people off. Do I have to care what someone's cha is? IRL and IG, I DGAF HOW you say it, I care WHAT you say. People throw that cha roll at me, and I ignore it. People try to tell me to do things, then make a dice roll, and all I care about is what they said, and if it makes sense to me. Should there be a factor in this? Can high int and wis help a person ignore cha? It does IRL, IMHO.

[Akai]

Obviously, a high charisma cannot make you do or believe anything. A high charisma can hold your attention while an argument is presented; it might make you *want* to believe that argument; it might sway you if you were undecided; it might even, depending on your personality, make you do something against your better judgement. But there has never in the history of the world been someone so magnetic, so persuasive, that he/she was able to convince *everyone* of any given thing.

Also obviously, RP is optional. You can ignore a character's high charisma, just as you could ignore someone saying, *grabs hold of you and holds you still <strength check>*.

I do think that if you *intend* to RP with someone, you should respect his character's strengths, whether that's reacting to someone with a high charisma as if they were very charming/persuasive/intimidating, or whether it's being held still by someone who beats you in a strength check with that intention.