Elder'caps & Sneakattack
-
- Squire of the Holy Church of Annoyance
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:59 pm
- Location: S.Wales, UK
Elder'caps & Sneakattack
Type of Bug/Exploit Combat bug?
Area of Bug Exploit (be as specific as possible) Various in Hala
NPCs involved (Be as specific as possible) Elder Ettercaps
Chests involved none
Timestamp on when it happened Various time over last few weeks
Frequency of occurance always under conditions as described below
I first noticed this in the Undergroung river(?) area, where a lot of elder ettercaps spawn. Basically, I can SA them from stealth, but when they're KD'd, the SA does not seem to work. Since then Elder'caps seem to have taken a liking to me.. but they always show the same behaviour:
From stealth, or if they are in combat with another PC, I can get SAs in.
When they are prone on the ground, I can't sneak them.
Surely they should be sneakable from both conditions, or completely immune?
Area of Bug Exploit (be as specific as possible) Various in Hala
NPCs involved (Be as specific as possible) Elder Ettercaps
Chests involved none
Timestamp on when it happened Various time over last few weeks
Frequency of occurance always under conditions as described below
I first noticed this in the Undergroung river(?) area, where a lot of elder ettercaps spawn. Basically, I can SA them from stealth, but when they're KD'd, the SA does not seem to work. Since then Elder'caps seem to have taken a liking to me.. but they always show the same behaviour:
From stealth, or if they are in combat with another PC, I can get SAs in.
When they are prone on the ground, I can't sneak them.
Surely they should be sneakable from both conditions, or completely immune?
-
- Squire of the Holy Church of Annoyance
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:59 pm
- Location: S.Wales, UK
-
- Squire of the Holy Church of Annoyance
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:59 pm
- Location: S.Wales, UK
I did wonder if they had some imunity to KD that wasn't quite running properly.. mhmm.. I wonder if I can SA from stealth while they're KD'dXanthalas wrote:Sneak attack.
Just a thought. As I've had a similiar problem on a private server I ran.
Some creatures react oddly to being knocked down. And one creature. Using a static model of I -think- one of the golem's. Started reacting wierd, when I gave them no discipline and immune to knockdown, or somethiing similiar. And what would happen. Is exactly as you described. (Invis/stealth/flanking would allow SA, but not knocking them down)
What was happening is that they weren't getting knocked down, but their animation was still acting like they were, causing alot of confusion. This may or may not be the case with the Ettercaps, but thought I might offer the theory.
Erik / Xanthalas (Rykolyn)
-
- Honor Guard: Church of Pants
- Posts: 1237
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:45 am
- Location: Behind you!
I know very little about rogues or sneak attack in general, but afaik sneak attacks will only work if the creature's in combat with another creature, or if you catch them flat footed, so that could be why it's working when you first attack.
A quote from the Sneak Attack article on the NwNWiki:
A quote from the Sneak Attack article on the NwNWiki:
I've seen you fight those ettercaps- oh you poor, epic shadowdancing ranger, you'll just have to take your time hacking at them when they're knocked down (or not knocked down as Xanthalas stated)Whenever a character makes a successful attack against an opponent who is flat-footed, cannot see them, or who is in combat with someone else, the character’s blow delivers extra damage.
[url=http://wiki.ysgard.org/index.php?title=PCs:Lily]Lily[/url]
-
- Honor Guard: Holy Church of Big Mouths
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:37 am
No, Knockdown in standard PnP and Bioware allows SneakAttack on prone creatures. (Ask any rogue with IKD, why they took it. They'll either lie, or tell you for sneak attack.upholstery_imp wrote:I know very little about rogues or sneak attack in general, but afaik sneak attacks will only work if the creature's in combat with another creature, or if you catch them flat footed, so that could be why it's working when you first attack.
[i]I live yet do not live in me,
am waiting as my life goes by,
and die because I do not die.
- St John of the Cross.[/i]
[url=http://wiki.ysgard.org/index.php?title=User:Xanthalas][size=75]WIKI INFO[/size][/url]
am waiting as my life goes by,
and die because I do not die.
- St John of the Cross.[/i]
[url=http://wiki.ysgard.org/index.php?title=User:Xanthalas][size=75]WIKI INFO[/size][/url]
-
- Squire of the Holy Church of Annoyance
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:59 pm
- Location: S.Wales, UK
*returns from another session of questionable experimentings on hapless elder'caps*
Using KD, then HiPs'ing into stealth allows SA's..
KD in darkness allows SA's on the prone victim too.
& ooh! they casts lesser restoration (..& for a damned good reason) ~is impressed with the AI~
Heheh.. yup my poor PC excels at dirty low down sneaky stabby fighting.. but in a straight fight is actually fairly poor.. (unless insanely well buffed )
..her weapons have a distressing tendency to bounce off these etter-fiends! (TBH.. the tendency for normal Avlis spawns to DP me despite uber buffings is more distressing. ~hates ganooms~). Oh.. & I haven't got KD as a feat!
*looks up at DS's post* meh! I'll have to wail & weird them! Then blind the remainders & sneaky stabby them
Using KD, then HiPs'ing into stealth allows SA's..
KD in darkness allows SA's on the prone victim too.
& ooh! they casts lesser restoration (..& for a damned good reason) ~is impressed with the AI~
Heheh.. yup my poor PC excels at dirty low down sneaky stabby fighting.. but in a straight fight is actually fairly poor.. (unless insanely well buffed )
..her weapons have a distressing tendency to bounce off these etter-fiends! (TBH.. the tendency for normal Avlis spawns to DP me despite uber buffings is more distressing. ~hates ganooms~). Oh.. & I haven't got KD as a feat!
*looks up at DS's post* meh! I'll have to wail & weird them! Then blind the remainders & sneaky stabby them
Don't forget SR and Immune to Crit!darkserra wrote:Well,
It seems the solution is to make the Eldar Etters immune to knockdown and give them True Seeing...
[i]I live yet do not live in me,
am waiting as my life goes by,
and die because I do not die.
- St John of the Cross.[/i]
[url=http://wiki.ysgard.org/index.php?title=User:Xanthalas][size=75]WIKI INFO[/size][/url]
am waiting as my life goes by,
and die because I do not die.
- St John of the Cross.[/i]
[url=http://wiki.ysgard.org/index.php?title=User:Xanthalas][size=75]WIKI INFO[/size][/url]
-
- Craftmaster
- Posts: 587
- Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:19 am
- Location: Alexandria, Virginia
- Contact:
Right, forgot about those.... wanders off to make a list and fix the etters...Xanthalas wrote:Don't forget SR and Immune to Crit!darkserra wrote:Well,
It seems the solution is to make the Eldar Etters immune to knockdown and give them True Seeing...
-- [i]People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.[/i]
George Orwell
George Orwell
-
- Squire of the Holy Church of Annoyance
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:59 pm
- Location: S.Wales, UK
meep!darkserra wrote:Right, forgot about those.... wanders off to make a list and fix the etters...Xanthalas wrote:Don't forget SR and Immune to Crit!darkserra wrote:Well,
It seems the solution is to make the Eldar Etters immune to knockdown and give them True Seeing...
~more cruel & unusual experiments~
Etter Elders fallen over in grease ~ not sneakable
Etter Elders blown over in explosion ~ not sneakable
Etter Elders entangled..? ~ they dispelled it
Etter Elders entangled..? ~ they resisted it
Etter Elders entangled in their own entangle spell.. SNEAKABLE!
((Eldercap preservation plea: please give them freedom!))
& honestly, I'm not complaining about their bizarre ability to fend off sneaky stabbys at their soft bits whilst they are rolling about on the floor.. but I have noted that this is an ability shared by the Iron Sword Spider.. After a number of observations am beginnning to make the following IC theories..
(1) Ironswordspiders' unusually strong legs are able to fend off attacks at their vulnerables whilst flipped over.
(2) Eldercaps are a bizarre abberation with their bellies on back-to-front.. hence when they are on their 'backs' it is only their armoured carapace that is exposed to attack.
All makes sense to me
-
- Squire of the Holy Church of Annoyance
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:59 pm
- Location: S.Wales, UK
ack! Managed to Daze one! (it must have rolled a one.. never ever manage to daze anything usually) but.. I couldn't then sneak it.. so I think that blows Bizarre Theorum #2 outa the water..bizarre theorist wrote:(2) Eldercaps are a bizarre abberation with their bellies on back-to-front.. hence when they are on their 'backs' it is only their armoured carapace that is exposed to attack.
Eldercaps entangled in their own enchantments & prone in their own grease (euwe!) sneakable!
Yeah I know I going on here.. but they bugging me!
A quick re-cap:
Sneakable from: Stealth, Darkness, Entangled
Not from: KD, prone in grease, Dazed
New theory: things jus ain't the same on the outer planes