How to RP Timestop

[T'Holoth Shadowborn]

Stealing your thunder again Druid!

Question came up about how to RP timestop being cast.
Can players feel it or do they not notice it?

I've always played that when someone casts timestop my character gets a feeling of dejavous so he felt *something* (sometimes) but doesn't know what it .
Now thats not to say it always happens but if someone casts 4 or 5 timestops in a row I'll RP my character definatly feeling something off.

Further to that, I was thinking
a. Spell casters at higher levels will recognize the words and gestures from the spell. (Even not casters will hear and see a spell being cast with no visible effect, save that maybe;
b. Characters will start to think somethings amis when they hear a spell being cast, they blink, and a second later the 30 orcs that were infront of them are dead on the ground in blames and theirs scorce marks all over their ground. Or even they themselves are suddenly hurt.

Whats the staff's tke on characters noticing when timestop is being cast?

[Psye Shaar]

This would be better asked here as you might find players perceptions equally insightful.

If a final ruling comes out of it, that can go in the rules forum

[T'Holoth Shadowborn]

Right, fair enough.

You didn't offer any input though!

Whats your take on it?

[silverdragonams]

Further to that, I was thinking
a. Spell casters at higher levels will recognize the words and gestures from the spell. (Even not casters will hear and see a spell being cast with no visible effect, save that maybe;
b. Characters will start to think somethings amis when they hear a spell being cast, they blink, and a second later the 30 orcs that were infront of them are dead on the ground in blames and theirs scorce marks all over their ground. Or even they themselves are suddenly hurt.

Whats the staff's tke on characters noticing when timestop is being cast?

I've always figured that's what Spellcraft is for. If you get the message "so and so casts Timestop" instead of "so and so casts unknown spell" then you know afterwards by the words and gestures that happen beforehand that someone has cast timestop.

Other than that though, only the caster should really know what is happening while timestop is affecting an area.

[ace4lyyfe]

On a slightly related subject concerning timestops.

LP77's Custom guide.

To go along with everything added above. I will add a few of my own. These are my own, for when I run events and not necessarily all DM's will follow this. Each have their own style and reasoning.

1. Timestop
Sure it is nice to be able to stop time, move around and do whatever. My rule on timestop follows with PnP rules for how the spell is to be used.

Timestop is not your free oppertunity to attack anything. It's only purpose is to heal, use potions, or cast defensive or other "Buff" type spells, or to run away. This is a bug of the bioware engine that we can't do anything about.

Using timestop as an offensive act is a good way to find out how fast I can spawn some really tough creatures.

Anything not covered here is fair game but may be frowned upon, like the use of timestop to cast offensive spells.

Since using Timestop to cast offensive spells is frowned upon and discouraged, would it be possible to change the way NPCs use Timestop? Certain minotaur wizards NPCs don't follow this rule at all. Would it be possible to either change their AI so they don't cast offensive spells during Timestops(Don't think this can be done), or take Timestops off their spell list? Many thanks.

H

[T'Holoth Shadowborn]

Good post ace.
I actually don't mind NPCs using timestop. I'm rather fond of it because of the challange it offers. I've had my ass kicked there (by minotaur wizards) more than once because of time stop. I think it presents a wicked challange.

I've found one major hicup that happens time and time again in Hala is that guests from offworld come here and at times jus get schooled by an area. Often these lv 30/35+ characters get very pissed off and complain. I've actually heard complaints that an area is too hard. Personally I think it's just an insult to their ego that someones uber character would loose and all in all I think that kind of situation can really humble someone. Theres always going to be someone bigger and tougher.
I'd rather be faced with a very challanging area, with enemies then be able to justw alk through an area stroking my ego.

Now I'm not suggesting thats the case with your comment, far from it. I know how annoying it is to have those guys cast time stop after time stop after time stop. Their not smart about it either sometimes. Often they will justdo stupid buffs and it's a bit of a waste of time.
All in all though I prefer NPCs having that kinda opertunity (just like having dev crit) to kick our ass. I'm a big fan of uber monsters and impossible areas.

Timestop (like harm, for example) when used in CvC can get really frustrating and just ruin the fun for most people involved.

[Akai]

I see Ace's point though; if you see monsters using a spell a certain way, it seems obvious that the DM's approve of that use of the spell since they set up that encounter. And if your *character* sees a spell being used a certain way, there's no reason the character wouldn't learn from what he sees and try to duplicate it.

[Lord Droke]

Which take us back to the original question. How can you learn to use a time stop a certain way if an opponent is doing the casting?
Unfortunately the NWN engine is limited. I don't think someone playing an uber sorcerer casting a time stop then using the effect to lay waste to all there opponents with massive offensive spells anything near the NPC's generic use of it. As said they will often use it to cast buffs they don't even need.

[Trinity]

As far as the engine is concerned with NPC's sadly there is not any real way to not have them cast offensvise spells turning timestop with out removing their offensive spells all together to my knowlage.
And let's stick to the topic here...how PC's can RP it...not what NPC's that do,that have limited AI.

[LadyPhoenix77]

Regarding ace's post, about NPC's, namely the mino wizards, I do try to avoid making any NPC's with timestop in their spell selection, I will also look into replacing timestop in any NPC's lists that may have them. I don't like the way that the AI abuses it, and they are even worse about abusing it than any player can be.

[Lir'ana]

Hmmm I love the spell time stop. Was one of my favorite spells with Lir.

As for if people notice I agree with Silver if they pass their spellcraft check and see what spell it is then they know. Otherwise they might think something amiss when the 30 orcs in front of them go poof and are gone but hell maybe it was a mass teleport spell They wouldn't necassirly know what the caster did only that they heard chanting and poof magic.

I would have to say if you don't get the spellcraft check your kind of clueless. Maybe even flabergasted and clueless

[Xanthalas]

As far as the engine is concerned with NPC's sadly there is not any real way to not have them cast offensvise spells turning timestop with out removing their offensive spells all together to my knowlage.
And let's stick to the topic here...how PC's can RP it...not what NPC's that do,that have limited AI.

This can be fixed actually.

But as for the rulings, From what I understand.
If your spellcraft check rolls, and you recognize the spell.
Then you know it was cast.
If it says "Rykolyn Casts Time Stop"
Then you know he did.

Otherwise, You know nothing, and felt nothing, but maybe saw Ryk move positions instantly, or pull a bunch of buffs out of thin air, etc.

[Druid523]

Spellcraft and hearing/seeing any words of power/finger waggling aside, if a mage/psion stops time for a few rounds, but chooses to do nothing other than stand there, does anyone notice anything? Is there a sense that "something" just happened or does there have to be an actual noticeable change in the environment?

[Xanthalas]

Spellcraft and hearing/seeing any words of power/finger waggling aside, if a mage/psion stops time for a few rounds, but chooses to do nothing other than stand there, does anyone notice anything? Is there a sense that "something" just happened or does there have to be an actual noticeable change in the environment?

That's kind of what is being debated.

I'd say -no-

Since that's what the spellcraft is partially for, But really the truth of it is, that time does not -actually- stop. Regardless if the mage managed to stay absoloutely still, then I doubt a fighter would pick up on it, it's just not something he'd notice. Psions are iffy though, doubtfully though, because Temporal sensitivity and psionics are not one and the same.

I think the spell on large should be changed to "Time Shift"

Which is a no-save, no-resist spell, that hastes all party members, and slows all hostiles in range, for rounds per every 2 caster levels.

But that's just me,

[Final Shinryuu]

No. Time Stop does not stop time.
It speeds the caster up to the point at which they can take several rounds worth of action, all in an instant. Time Stop only affects the caster.

[Gregpooh]

No. Time Stop does not stop time.
It speeds the caster up to the point at which they can take several rounds worth of action, all in an instant. Time Stop only affects the caster.

From a purely physics standpoint, someone speeded up to such an extent who was still in the regular time stream would likely burst into flames or tear themselves appart if they tried to move. Things like mass and inertia and friction would still be in play. If the spell warps time around the caster however, then he's got relativity on his side. Everything within the sphere of influence of the spell ie his imediate vicinity, would conform to the spacetime he was within, so he would be moving and acting normally. To people outside his time sphere, he would appear to be moving incredibly fast (if they could see him at all). The real tricky part is, of course, how his timeframe merges with the "regular" time frame. Something within the spell must prevent nasty side effects like the bit of planet you are standing on flying off in another direction, or your air running out, etc.. Maybe we can call Steven Hawkings and he can explain it to us?

I think this was the original explanation for why offensive spells could not be used. The caster is really "out of Phase" with the world around him. He is litterally in his own universe for the duration of the spell. Offensive spells would probably have difficulty crossing the barrier between the casters continum and the "real" world. I don't remember how they rule in the P&P game, but it would make more sense for the caster to be unable to interract with anything outside his spells effect. I know, moving someone's bow to shift their aim, or Dropping someone's drawers is funny, but this goes back to the whole intertia thing from before. Unless the spell brought the person 'into synch' with the mage (which would then let them see and effect him as well) any attempt to manipulate something would be either futile, (can't touch it) or disasterous (hyper accelerates it).

*phew* .

[T'Holoth Shadowborn]

No. Time Stop does not stop time.

Spell description

This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but the character. In fact, the character speeds up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds.

Psion description

A stasis field is a region in which time seems to slow to a crawl. Time within the field seems to come to a complete halt for all except the psionicist that created it.

I guess you could say that time seems to slow down BECAUSE the caster speeds up but it doesn't mention speeding up the caster anywhere in the description. Only that time slows down. Maybe it can be said that the powers work differently between spell and psionic power.

[Final Shinryuu]

Exactly as I said. Time Stop does not stop time. That is what you were asking in the original post, yes?
The similar psionic power is not Time Stop. Time Stop is a spell. The psionic power is Stasis Field.

[silverdragonams]

Speeding up or slowing down, really 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other


and if a wizard casts time stop but does nothing during its duration...

that's like asking "If a tree falls in the woods..." If he didn't do anything, does it really matter?

[ace4lyyfe]

Regarding ace's post, about NPC's, namely the mino wizards, I do try to avoid making any NPC's with timestop in their spell selection, I will also look into replacing timestop in any NPC's lists that may have them. I don't like the way that the AI abuses it, and they are even worse about abusing it than any player can be.

Power Word Kill

Caster Level(s): Wizard / Sorcerer 9
Innate Level: 9
School: Divination
Descriptor(s): Death
Component(s): Verbal
Range: Short
Area of Effect / Target: Large, Single
Duration: Instant
Additional Counter Spells: Death Ward
Save: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell may be cast on a single creature or as an area effect. A targeted creature of up to 100 Hit Points is killed instantly. As an area effect, this spell will kill all creatures with fewer than 20 Hit Points, to a maximum total of 200 Hit Points.

Perhaps exchanging Power Word Kills for Timestops might be appropriate? The spell kills anyone under 100 hp instantly with no save. Perhaps this would help keep people from towing lower levels down there.

As for RP'ing Timestops.

This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but the character. In fact, the character speeds up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds.

Imagine a level 40 monk.... hasted.... on steroids.... Basically, timestop is a super-jacked up haste that allows the caster to do multiple actions and move at blinding speed while everyone else is just starting to blink. For people viewing a person casting timestop, you saw him cast Timestop, and then he turned into a blur as he moved around at lightning speeds.

[VIpAcT]

The mino wizards are built really poorly, and while it is not the optimal solution, your character shouldn't be there if your party can't stand the heat of one mino timestop + limited offensive lineup.

Now... if you attack a Nagritch battlemage. Thats a different story. They have spells like a real mage! All I'll say in this case is that you probably want to have a DM online to make it more fair (or not fair... and that the rules for attacking cities are such.)

And yeah. Don't think that real-life physics applies to magic. That'd just be silly! (I believe AoE spells are allowed to be casted in Timestop in PnP... not completely sure... they just begin after the timestop ends. But thats neither here nor there.)

[Xanthalas]

Code: Select all

[size=9]Time Stop

Transmutation

Level: Sor/Wiz 9, Trickery 9

Components: V

Casting Time: 1 standard action

Range: Personal

Target: You

Duration: 1d4+1 rounds (apparent time); see text

This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for 1d4+1 rounds of ap­parent time. Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop (such as cloudkill) have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends. Most spellcastersuse the additional time to improve their defenses, summon allies, or flee from combat.

          You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in nor­mal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession.

          You are undetectable while time stop lasts. You cannot enter an area protected by an antimagic field while under the effect of time stop.[/size]

((Side note,  Please notice the components,  "Waggling" is actually done.  Verbal Only.))  
 

That's the 3.5 Listing. But the problem is not what the books say. As most of us know how to read, (*Cough*)
The thing about the books is they are guidelines, In any of the campaigns I DM'ed for, This, Temporal Stasis, and the Wish spells, were effectually removed from PC's, or made so incredibly hard to cast, that I didn't worry about it during game play. That's the whole point of the Books, Theyre guidelines. Meaning we need to find out what this server and it's DM's want. (And I think they've made it clear as it stands too,)

Now that's the Spell. Time Shift and Stasis Field, (I think that's the Psions power) Operate differently, but the rulings have changed over the year, (And the very "class" has changed as well) But from what I've been told by resident DM's, is that Time Shift does not allow talking or movement of others, It's basically a Tactical decision so one can move around. But there's a difference between the Arcane power, and the Psionic one, As Time Stop says, The Mage is still vurnerable to traps, and spell effects, Where as I understand the Psion Ability has been rendering Psions immune to these things, (In Game anyways, I do not have acess to the power descriptions of the Psionic abilities and do not know what the recent rulings say on it.)