Role-play Guidance Requested

Talks that may or may not have anything to do with Hala or NWN

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miyafawyn
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Role-play Guidance Requested

Post by miyafawyn »

Alright you happy people you… I have a question to both the team and my fellow Halanians (Halanites? Halonians? :lol: )…

Prior to my handsome and wonderful husband introducing me to Avlis, I had no role-play experience –at all-. Over the last couple of years of playing on Avlis, I have learned A LOT from the players and the team. (thank you all!)

These last six months on Hala have been A BLAST, but I am finding myself running into a few things that seem to be different. As I haven't been able to work out these answers for myself, I decided for the good of all future game-play…to just ask the people who would know. 8)


Several players have suggested posting "in-game actions", with particular note that such posts are looked for when weighing a player's interest about something. IronJade also stated he counts them when calculating experience for his plots.

In my experience, actions or emotes that nobody sees have been poked fun of – particularly "thought" and "action" emotes like, *stares in horror wondering where they bought that tacky dress* or *a cloaked figure in black leaves a note and vanishes in a whiff of wind*.


When is it appropriate to post in-game actions? I have only considered "in-game actions" something someone would see if they were really there when I did them.

What kinds of actions do DM's (in particular) want to see? I would hate to accidentally over-step storyline etiquette by trying to role-play via the boards (which is an interesting twist for me). I also don't want to look like a tell-all, by running off to the boards with anything I find interesting.

What about in-character journals? I rarely read them because I have not wanted to accidentally find out something about someone I RP with that I would rather find out in game. I also have considered them to be private. Why would I post online if it is a private diary?

On a related note...

What kinds of in-game emotes are appropriate? In the past I have also been teased for in-game stuff like *grins* when I am wearing a helm,etc or Emotes like *thinks to herself* or *comes in quietly*, because , again, no one can "hear" that thought, and if I am quiet, then.. no one would "hear" me. As such, I have tried very hard to always limit my posts/emotes to "text replies" or in-game public announcements, and the like.


That's what I have for now. Thanks for the help!
8) :D 8)
silverdragonams
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Post by silverdragonams »

Interesting topic!

My take on it is that action posts are great for filling DMs and other characters on what your character is doing that is impossible to (or incredibly tedious) to RP out in game. Like research for example.

I like to use my journal to fill the gap between WHAT my character does and the WHY she is doing it. For example, I wrote Sara's last journal entry because she was acting a little grumpy at the end of Sunday's DM event and I wanted to explain that something really was bothering her and it wasn't just me behind the keyboard being tired and short :)

I love reading other characters journals. Of course it should all be taken as OOC information, but they provide a lot of insight into other characters attitude and motivation.
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Druid523
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Post by Druid523 »

I'm currently in-game at the moment, but would love to talk about in-game emotes later!

Quickly, though, regarding emoting thoughts: do it! The big caveat: do it only when it is reasonable and apparent. We can often tell what another person is thinking/feeling by their facial expression and body language. Not always, but often we can! For most, if not all, of my thought-related or emotion-related emotes I use the word "seems".

To take your example (*stares in horror wondering where they bought that tacky dress*), let's change it slightly so that it is a realistic sort of emote:

*stares in horror at Aria's dress, seemingly disgusted by her choice of attire*

I do that often, rather than taking a longer time to visualize what sorts of facial expressions would be registered on someone's face to convey the same idea. If you wish to keep your emotes purely superficial (i.e, focusing only on the physical characteristics that people might observe), you could change the emote to:

*as her eyebrows raise and pinch together slightly, she immediately tries covering her open mouth as she gapes at Aria's dress*

So emote thoughts and feelings! Just convey it in a way that is reasonable, realistic, and in those situations where the thought or feeling would be readily apparent. :)
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Post by Verandis »

I'm not an expert but I can at least give you some of my less useful opinions!

1) Journals- I write mine for myself; I posted them in case people wanted to see them. (Though a lot of sections are edited out on Arcanen's in order to keep out some private details of people's lives and plots.) Part of the reason I write this is because it lets me know which character is part of which plot; another reason is because it helps me remember details months later.


2) Posts on forum boards- I used to never do this because I am terrible at writing. I did a couple more recently because...so, a lot of times my character wanders off by himself and I'd like at least someone to know what he did. (And yes, all those times with the wolf pelt and sticks and gloves all that....I worked to grab all those items if they existed in Hala and trashed them after the post. I also walked to the area in question and likely quit there.)

I too have seen the snickering about shadowy figures in the shadows who do stuff nobody sees, but from the posts I've made people have only said good stuff (to my face, at least, are you guys all laughing behind my back?), so really, I'd say post if if you want to, and don't if you don't want to.
solitude_peace
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Post by solitude_peace »

I guess that puts me in the No Post camp.

When Batali is off exploring new places she is usually by herself. No one saw her, no one could report what she did. It seems silly for me to post THAT. Now, if others want to post what happened when no one was around.. fine. Does that make Batali a bit reclusive? Somewhat private? Yup.

Then again, if she comes running out of the Orc Caves on fire and Nerice is there to put her out... there might be a post.
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Post by Tremayne7 »

*Grins at Druid*

My journal or more specifically Aria's journal, is a way to record her thoughts and feelings just like a diary you kept when you where a kid or a teenager. If you choose not to read it, your choice. :D I write it for myself and recently in game actually gave it to another character to read so yes, they now know what I've written in there in character. At least up to a point. *waves at Rudiki*

I'm not going to say how anyone should rp anything, be it emotes, what the character says or I was going to say wear, but.... :wink:

ah, well it's late and I shall pay for this tomorrow.

Hugs and if I think of anything else I shall let you know.
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Post by darkserra »

A really great topic!!

Something to think about also.. if you do something that no other PC is around to see, but NPCs are.. then it gives you a reason to post, as the NPCs would talk about what they see, just like the PCs do.

That type of talk, especially if it is about noteworthy or unusual events, gets around.

I've always figured that posts on the boards in the Inns and Taverns, when talking about character actions, were seen the the patrons and they communicated that to others... probably for the price of a drink!! :D

Just my views
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Post by Psye Shaar »

miyafawyn wrote:In my experience, actions or emotes that nobody sees have been poked fun of – particularly "thought" and "action" emotes like, *stares in horror wondering where they bought that tacky dress* or *a cloaked figure in black leaves a note and vanishes in a whiff of wind*.
DS covered this quite well in saying that just because there are no PC's there, doesn't mean there are no NPC's overhearing.

Your second example is fine as it's an action that's constructive and productive. However, had you emoted *stands completely hidden in the shadows, reads a couple of notes, then leaves* you're implying that no-one could see the PC (which would very likely be wrong) and if there's no other accompnaying facts, then as far as anyone is concerned, you may as well have just typed *Bob was here*

You'll often see some fairly long emote posts that are giving an added insight into a characters actions and can be a continuation reflective of recent in-game events. Even if they are more for flavour, I know that many of our players still enjoy to read them. Rudiki's posts about relating to Lexy's antics in teh Tower of Iron Will are a good example of this.
miyafawyn wrote:What about in-character journals? I rarely read them because I have not wanted to accidentally find out something about someone I RP with that I would rather find out in game. I also have considered them to be private. Why would I post online if it is a private diary?
Silver sums this up well below:
silverdragonams wrote:I like to use my journal to fill the gap between WHAT my character does and the WHY she is doing it. For example, I wrote Sara's last journal entry because she was acting a little grumpy at the end of Sunday's DM event and I wanted to explain that something really was bothering her and it wasn't just me behind the keyboard being tired and short

I love reading other characters journals. Of course it should all be taken as OOC information, but they provide a lot of insight into other characters attitude and motivation.
Journals can give PC's huge amounts of depth to their personalities and can also give DM's elements of information to play on that wouldn't necessarily ever come to light in-game. Some are written simply as a series of events whereas others are written as personal diaries. You're never obliged to write anything you would rather be certain cannot be used IC'ly (even if in error) and unless the poster states that someone is able to read the diary, then it remains OOC.
miyafawyn wrote:What kinds of in-game emotes are appropriate? In the past I have also been teased for in-game stuff like *grins* when I am wearing a helm,etc or Emotes like *thinks to herself* or *comes in quietly*, because , again, no one can "hear" that thought, and if I am quiet, then.. no one would "hear" me. As such, I have tried very hard to always limit my posts/emotes to "text replies" or in-game public announcements, and the like.
Generally, these kind of emotes are all fine, but again, common sense is a factor. If there's a large group of people then it can start to become difficul to follow if everyone is emoting every single twitch as well as all of the talking.. where as if it's a small group, then even the most subtle emotes can be used to highlight an emotion or reaction.
miyafawyn wrote:What kinds of actions do DM's (in particular) want to see? I would hate to accidentally over-step storyline etiquette by trying to role-play via the boards (which is an interesting twist for me). I also don't want to look like a tell-all, by running off to the boards with anything I find interesting.
The only hard and fast rule here is that you can never speak/act for an NPC without prior concent from a DM. Everything else is game, although it is always worth considering that what may seem like a good/funny/clever remark at the time, could well carry unfavourable reppercussions for your PC afterwards :twisted: :wink:

my $0.2's anyway :)
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Post by Redda »

REMOVED
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Post by Xanthalas »

On the subject of in-game emotes.
One of the largest ones I've seen discussion over is the helmeted *Smiles*" or *Blink* or *Seems to be deep in thought.*

Some of these things may not be plain to others, But Some DM's (Though I speak for none of the DMs) might like to see such emotes, because it helps the DM keep track of the emotions/thoughts/feelings of the player,. So if a player wearing a helmet, *Wrinkles his nose behind his helmet* While it seems useless information to the other players, It allows the DM insight.

Of course there is always my favorite.

*Blinks loudly*
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JD Smith
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Post by JD Smith »

I find the journals nice to use to try to remember events. And; I too have passed my journal on to another to read IG. And then later in game; that fact came into play. (and I am still trying to catch it up.) And; I too have put things in the journal that might explain certain actins in game. And certain things were forgotten were written in the journal when it was passed on to the other ....

Emotes can be a bit confusing to me. I have seen Alexis; and others, use the emote *spreads hands*. To me; I don't know exactly what they're doing. Whenever I see that; I think to myself that they are holding their hands out in front of themselfves, the tips of their thunbs together; with their fingers spread wide apart. The hardest thing that I find about emotes while RP'ing ... first of all; thinking of the appropriate emote; and secondly ... typing it in before the moment for it has passed.

As far as putting emote posts on the boards go - I was told that one should first do the actual action IG; and then make an emote post on it. As; to claim that your character did something in game; but never actually being anywhere near the area it happened in was pure cheese.

Hope this didn't cloud the issue more than provide a help ...
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Post by Rudiki »

I read everything. All the journal entries, all the IC posts. Here are the reasons I do:

For the writers, because they have given me this gift, and I want to appreciate it. People often work very hard on those posts and they are very proud of them, for good reason. Some of this stuff is great (and by the way, Verandis, you are, too, a good writer). If it's not your thing to read stuff, that's cool too, but I have always been a voracious reader and I enjoy them.

Lexy is an amazingly perceptive person. It is a major part of his character concept that he is very insightful where human emotions and motivations are concerned. I'm not as good at those things as Lexy is, plus often in-game interactions don't allow for the depth and detail that the posts do. Reading character journals, even though the information is OOC, gives me a better insight as to who the character is, and lets me play my character better in relation to that other character.

Which does not mean I'm going to have him guess another character's innermost secrets because I read it in his journal. A journal that says "Hah-hah; I have them all fooled! It will be so easy to betray them all!", is not going to make me, and should not make me, suddenly be suspicious of that character. But often one can get a better idea of what the player is trying to have his character convey in game if one reads the character journal, and that's what I mean.

And here's why I write them:

I love my character, and I want to share him with others. I enjoy writing (though it takes me forever).

I suck at the physical aspects of this game. I make up for often not having time to type that emote by writing in depth later. I hope that other players can get a better sense of who Lexy is by reading such things, and use it in their game-play. He would be revealing his personality all the time in actual game-play but I don't have the skills to adequately convey it there.

I also write for the DMs, so they know what is going on with Lexy and they can use it if they want to. When I was a DM for a live game that had a mailing list, I read everything on the list and every piece of private communication that went back and forth IC between the players, so that I always had the big picture and was better able to pull the strings and yank the chains. The better the DMs know the character, the better able they are to push the right buttons for that character, and that equals more fun for me!

Not so much with Lexy's, because he doesn't keep a diary, but I like to write about the other characters in the game, as a tribute to how well-played they are. I love it when I read about my character in someone else's journal, so I know how much fun that is, and I like to do that for other people. If Lexy did keep a diary (I wish I had the time, and that he was the type to) he would fill it with observations about the other characters in the game.

However, there are some things I do not write even in IC-but-OOC forums. Though I will write nasty things about characters whose players are proud of their being nasty, I try not to write things that will hurt other peoples feelings, or belittle their characters, and I try not to write spoilers about ongoing plots until the information doesn't matter anymore.

As for being made fun of for emotes that aren't quite right, humph! Lexy almost never wears a helm, so I've on several occasions emoted his facial expressions and afterward went: "Doh! He's wearing a helm!" Druid said good stuff regarding how to emote inner thoughts. Again, since Lexy is so perceptive, I'm glad to get such clues. If a character is feeling angry or depressed or euphoric, I think it's helpful to say so, and with my horrible typing skills it's better to just say that one word rather than a long description of what it looks like, because by the time I finish the long description the right timing for the information has long passed. I have no problem with "Thinks to herself" versus "Seems lost in thought"; both convey the point and life's too short to quibble. I am firmly of the "the more emoting the better" camp. :)

As far as IC posts on the boards, I tend to write stuff that happens in a public place and could be seen by others. Then if someone wants to have heard about it, they can react to it. I tend to actually have my character do in game whatever it is I'm writing about, such as I'll have them actually go the the glade and kneel down and pray for as long as I say they prayed in my post, and leave whatever I say they left, or do whatever I say they did there. And I prefer to post prayers to gods and such publicly instead of PM them to the DM just because I am the kind of person who is curious myself, and who likes to include and to share.

And finally, not only should you never speak/act for any NPC without prior consent from a DM, you should also never speak/act for someone else's PC without prior consent from that player. I have on occasion adapted chat logs for posting on the boards, and before I do I always run it by the other players involved first if I have changed or added anything at all, however slight, to clarify, and if they say it's okay it gets posted.

Thanks for listening!
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Post by Rudiki »

*Sits at the computer and does Lexy's hand motions...*

"Spreads Hands": Hands in front of the body, usually somewhere between waist and chest height, fingers relaxed, palms facing each other, anywhere from touching to about a foot apart. Bring hands quickly out and away from each other to the sides, as if showing how big the fish was, and spread the fingers as you do so. Accompanying a phrase such as: "And that was all!"

"Throws Hands in the Air": Roughly the same starting position, but bring hands upward and slightly outward, ending with hands level with or slightly above the head, again spreading the fingers. Accompanying a phrase such as: "Oh, gods!"

"Waves a Hand": Usually done high, beside the head; usually a dismissive circular motion, from the wrist. Accompanying a phrase such as: "But in any case..."
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Post by Soul Hunter »

What about in-character journals? I rarely read them because I have not wanted to accidentally find out something about someone I RP with that I would rather find out in game. I also have considered them to be private. Why would I post online if it is a private diary?
I read some and have written some , I thnk as has been said by others that it helps expand the depth of the chracter. Journals and actions in posts to be give feel that they are doing something even when off line


What kinds of in-game emotes are appropriate? In the past I have also been teased for in-game stuff like *grins* when I am wearing a helm,etc or Emotes like *thinks to herself* or *comes in quietly*, because , again, no one can "hear" that thought, and if I am quiet, then.. no one would "hear" me. As such, I have tried very hard to always limit my posts/emotes to "text replies" or in-game public announcements, and the like.
I have been both teased and been teased about this in the past and expect it shall happen again inthe future . That been said I would like to point out that while nwn helms have to cover the face because of game/graphic issues that that is not the way all helms where. Further emotes such as *smiles* or *grins* while a person can not see you moouth perhaps can often me transmitted to eyes and even voice ( When I worked a call desk job they always told the people to smile when they answered the phone because the person opn the other end can hear it in your voice. Make me wonder why more people did not hangup on me and call the police for protection ....)

Thoughts can also be transmitted by body language as Druid showed. Facial expression and body posture and tone of voice can say more to a person you are talking to than the words you are saying. These things are not avaible in game so emoteing thoughts are a compromise that I think most people accept for what they are
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Post by BPanther »

mm.. so you are saying even with disguise and helm one can see hear and feel the cold/scowling attitude.

*sticks nose to another rp guide*

abowe is neutral unlike this is :twisted: see the face.
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Post by Rali'vinee »

Hi Miyafawyn :) *hug*

This is the best role-play advice thread I've ever seen (not that my experience is very wide-ranging). . . but it's supportive and open - a pleasant discussion with a lot of posts I agree with.

I'm new to these boards and Hala characters, but hope to interact with you all more often. Your player community here is incredibly creative, appreciative, tolerant, mature and kind. It's refreshing to read your posts, and exciting when I actually get to interact with your chars. Your dm's are kickass too. Their attitudes and openness to include the player base in what they do is truly remarkable.

I'll start by saying NEVER have I been upset with another's rp choices. Even ooc speak in the dialogue channel doesn't phase me. I know if that happens, it just means they don't understand something about the world, and they need guidance.

My personal thoughts on role-play is I REALLY dig anything anyone wants to emote/express so long as it doesn't cross another's OOC boundaries/rights. Sometimes I'll sit at my keyboard, mouth agape, astounded at what people come up with. Or, even more often, I'm giggling my ass off and my son's yelling at me to be quiet. THAT'S why I became addicted to this game.

Importantly, however, not everyone feels like I do, and no one person is "right" or "better" in their opinion. One of my best friends (online ooc friends) can't stand much chatter and emoting when we do dungeon crawls. One night recently I was on irc stating what a BLAST I'd just had on Rali, and they replied by saying they had the exact opposite experience at the same event, both of our feelings were in response to the large amount of chatter/emotes. So. . . I DO try to respect that not everyone likes to go on a dungeon crawl and come out 7 hours later not having gotten past the first 3 tiles like I do (heehee). Gotta try and read the appropriateness of your emote/chatter levels. Also, some people (well all of us to some degree) have limited play time and really want to do some quest or other for their chars. That needs to be respected too.

Emote posts are my favorites to read and write, and I always read them. I write them when they mark something important to my character or another (and if I have time). The thing is, in my opinion, it doesn't matter that nobody was there or that NPC's are the only witnesses. For me they add flavor and richness to the experience of a PW.

Plus, I'm wicked nosy so it's fun to see what people are up to!!!

Journals are a favorite too, but I usually don't open/read them unless I've IC'ly met the character, or OOC'ly been asked to. My reasons are very similar to Lexy's. But I have to add, I LOVE going back through my chars journals. After more than two years on one char, I've forgotten a lot of her experiences and feelings. So I'm grateful for having created her journal and wish I'd made more entries even if they might be boring for others to read. They still matter to me.

If I went off topic, I apologize.
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Post by Xanthalas »

BPanther wrote:mm.. so you are saying even with disguise and helm one can see hear and feel the cold/scowling attitude.

*sticks nose to another rp guide*

abowe is neutral unlike this is :twisted: see the face.
Damn. 100 gold if you can translate this for me.


Anyways. remember, DM's aren't psychic, (Though a few are Psycho)

They need to know emotions and such too.

So disguise, helmet, stuck in a box.
It's fair to show some emotion which might be reflected in presence anyways. Fine line though to be reading too much into someone.

Biggest piece of advice, is know how the emote might come across.

*Spreads hands* is very vague, I thought it was what Lexy detailed. But some people don't.

*Facepalms* Uh.. this is a little more common, but it's not hard to say, *Buries his face into his palms.*

or *whacks his palm onto his forehead and yells 'Doh!'*

A few extra words can make ALL the difference.
[i]I live yet do not live in me,
am waiting as my life goes by,
and die because I do not die.
- St John of the Cross.[/i]


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miyafawyn
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Post by miyafawyn »

Wow!! Thank you for all of the feedback and suggestions, gang! :D

Talk about a bunch of really great ideas! :twisted: 8)
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Post by blue wolfy »

LOL only journal i have on hala is 'bob's and its hardly to be taken serious, sole purpose of it is to make people go "...um ok i dont know him" or "oh shit its wolfy RUN AWAY!"
or at least make people smile and laugh once in awhile.

i dont often post on forums cause me personally dont like them. i would much rather be In Game playing, then sittingh ere reading about it. though i do browse from time to time.

i had a avlis journal for 'cassie" only did like three posts, one of which was her song. if i ever write another ill prolly copy her old journal here and post the new song with it since shes now mostly in hala, but im lazy so dont hold your breath.

as for emot posts IG i try to alter my rp style differently for every character i have, though sometimes as i said IM LAZY so i prolly could do it much better, ive been in a number of online rp's for over eleven years NWN and avlis/hala is still relitivly newish (about the last two years) and in the recent years ive lost favor of the 'paraRPs' where every post is a novel, ive gotten lazy in my old age (*cries* ill be 30 this year)

plus i type slow so by the time i write a detailed post most have walked away and im talking to myself. :P

i know im very guilty of the posting thoughts though *wonders if he should be admitting that* but sometime by oocly knowing what someone is thining you can A) laugh at them and 2) tell what sort of expresion they have

btw my wife and daughter just left for the week (yay silence...) and i just took some pain meds for my right ancle/knee, DR thinks im getting arthritas in them alrready so that may explain why im rambling on here incoherently for no reason other then to hear my own keyboard clicking

click

click

click

snore

drool

lkfasi^O*&Z%^o8768Y OYDASDFASF...zzzZZZZZZ

Signed lovingly
your snuggly bluewolf
Primal Lotus
Whelp of the Unholy Church of Newbieism
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:31 am
Location: GMT - 7

Post by Primal Lotus »

Thank you for posing this question Miya, and also all those who have resonded. Great information!
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