CvC and the Gentlemans Agreement

[NWDuneAuron]

I personally wouldn't like to see that. Examining is very useful as a DM.

[[ArcanE]]

I personally wouldn't like to see that. Examining is very useful as a DM.

I'm pretty sure that there is some way to only disable it for Players, or an extra option in a DMwand is able to pull alot of info too ... a little bit harder to utilise in some occations but still better than nothing :p

[Odin Hammersong]

NWDuneAuron has a valid point for sure. DMs use that feature to find out things like what exactly a PC is vulnerable to.

As a player, however, I think the No-CR Hak is one of the best things to happen to NWN. I've played with this hak on 3 other servers, and it totally changed the dynamics of not only CvC but character interaction in general. As I've said before, I'm not a huge fan of CvC, and even with that in mind, the hak really helped create an atmosphere which was a bit more "realistic" as far as the social dynamics. So it doesn't just affect CvC combat, it affects everything, IMHO.

Psye has a good point though. Most anyone who has been here for very long knows who the strongest folks are. But once that hak goes in, and a little time goes by, no one can really tell anymore. Sure the core group of elite folks will always know where they stand compared to their close peeps, but for a server that can see hundreds of people pass through in a month, I think it would be worth it.

--Odin

[micah ormane]

Again I say...it's more fun to find out ICly.

Doing things this way allows characters to develop attitudes and reputations that transcend level - if Jim the cleric of Kord is a brilliant millitary tactician, a heavy drinker, and has never lost a fight...and is level 5...he still deserves all the kudos that gets involved there. Level 35 PC's are still mortal, are still fragile, and still have emotions. Uber gear and an impossible rating does not make a hero (or villain). Perserverence, good planning, and luck does.

Frankly, if my PC came across somebody she never knew, who was 20 levels higher than her, she would not give them any more leeway than somebody she never knew who was level 1. And the same goes for those she does know - if I run across a player that has earned their reputation as an evil bastard, a strong leader, or whatever, Micah will show them the respect they deserve based on her personality and their station (ex: Avlis evil holy warriors). Level and right clicking doesn't mean anything!

[Aiquandol]

The CR does have an in character element. A seasoned warrior is going to look considerably different than someone that kills rats. Therefore, the CR can represent in character knowledge of your opponents likelyhood to school you. Getting rid of it seems a bit silly in my opinion. If we do, then characters have no way to "size up their opponent". There's only so much that can be represented with the little character graphic on the screen.

Let's take Grimm for example. In the world he's just dressed up in all red armor with a glowing red sword.

In actuality your character would see a lot more than that. Large battle scars, a crazy look in his eye, incredible strength and agility, an evil red haze surrounding him, blood all over his armor, etc. That last part is what the "impossible" CR represents.

[Lir'ana]

Have to agree with Aiq on that one. Plus the cr doesn't mean everything like someone said before. I know a couple characters like Grimm and Vincent for instance that only come up as challenging to me. Both can wupp my butt quite easily ((speaking from experience here lol)).

[[ArcanE]]

Thanks for the reply Aiq, didn't look at it that way yet. Only problem is that this doesn't apply to all of us.

Take a mage for instance, they often don't have scars or incredible strength through physical appearance, and their high intelligence often only shows in conversation. They might even wander around wearing just some lumps or a simple robe and still have tremendous power. CR's works in some occasions and in some it doesn't, but i guess that's how alot of things are. I now think everybody need to decide for himself what's best and how to roleplay CR's.

[Enverex]

Thanks for the reply Aiq, didn't look at it that way yet. Only problem is that this doesn't apply to all of us.

Take a mage for instance, they often don't have scars or incredible strength through physical appearance, and their high intelligence often only shows in conversation. They might even wander around wearing just some lumps or a simple robe and still have tremendous power. CR's works in some occasions and in some it doesn't, but i guess that's how alot of things are. I now think everybody need to decide for himself what's best and how to roleplay CR's.

Hehe, much like Xen. Normally works around in a plain shirt

[silverdragonams]

Thanks for the reply Aiq, didn't look at it that way yet. Only problem is that this doesn't apply to all of us.

Take a mage for instance, they often don't have scars or incredible strength through physical appearance, and their high intelligence often only shows in conversation.

heheheh...not all mages have high intelligence. But, I would guess that anyone would get a feeling of "power" radiating from a high level mage. And I would thinhk the same of a monk or psion too. Any character who is very in tune with energy; be it magical, mental, or chi; might have an "aura" of it about them.

Anyway...thats how I've always seen it. DM's please feel free to smack me around a bit if I'm wrong.

[[ArcanE]]

IMO it's not because you are a powerfull magic user you constantly have an aura surrounding you thats noticable to everybody. When a wizard wants he can radiate power through his magics but imo he can as well just sit there looking like commoner to most people. A mage isn't that physically obvious like a muscled fighter is (unless you are the long white beard kinda wizard)

That's how i think about it ... correct me if i'm wrong, i didn't bother looking it up in the DMG.

[silverdragonams]

That's how i think about it ... correct me if i'm wrong, i didn't bother looking it up in the DMG.

Honestly, neither did I, but thats how my PnP DM used to play it. And I didn't mean it would be an obvious aura...more like "you walk past the wizard and a shiver runs down your spine". Or kinda like the vauge feeling you migh get in RL when you meet a Martial Arts master or a very wise elderly person.

[Xanthalas]

((Edit = Deleted for personal reasons.))

[Zombie]

I say wings and blue glowing eyes all round!

[Enverex]

I say wings and blue glowing eyes all round!

*chuckles* More than you know...

[Aiquandol]

kinda like the vauge feeling you migh get in RL when you meet a Martial Arts master or a very wise elderly person.

yes

[Psye Shaar]

I would agree that you would sense something, especially from the likes of powerful arcane and divine magic users and to a point, powerful druids too. As has been said, they would almost radiate that power to a certain extent.

Monks would undoubtedly carry themselves in a certain way, although it would depend on how and where they were taught.. as well as the fact that the epic monk's eyes would give them away... A good example of this would be a monk that Terry Prattchett uses called Lu Tze.. to any around him, a humble sweeper, but actually monk of incredible power... (main reference would be Thief of Time, but he pops up in a few books)

Psions though I don't believe anyone would know about - my reasoning behind this is that a psion can open a path to someone's mind without that person ever knowing (ignoring the the fact you can see your will save on the screen and unless of course it's another psion who would sense it). This in mind, there is no 'power' to be sensed unless it's displayed. I suppose an observant person may notice them looking at people a little more intently, but that's up to each persons individual perspective.

I could of course just be talking out of my arse with none of the above being at all correct, but hey, it's how I see it

[NWDuneAuron]

Note also that some people can give conflicting messages in appearance. Jadrienne walks around in plain black robes, and looks like a weedy, poorly fed elf - she's also a palemaster of not inconsiderable power. It doesn't show.

Another good example is Luagha, who is illiterate and walks around in common clothes. He looks like a commoner - until he melts your brains.

[Psye Shaar]

*grumbles* Not all psions go round melting brains.... just the bored ones

[oneioscope]

My char likes to cast Bigby's Interposing Hand on people every once in a great while, just stand there at a distance and chuckle. It kinda sucks when someone uses it as an excuse to try killing me while my char is still just standing there doing absolutely nothing. I really wouldn't consider that attacking someone, especially if my char isn't buffed what so ever and/or holding a weapon. It's should be easy to tell the difference if someone is using a spell to harm you or if they're only playing. It's quite lame if the one character can't defend themselves and gets deathplaned before they're able to cast their first spell or pull out a weapon. *slaps forehead* Kinda lame. LOL.

I oughta give peeps a reason to attack my char by casting Bigby's Crushing Hand, deathplane them before they have a fighting chance, stick around for them to return to their corpse and wait for them to buff themselves for a real fight

[[ArcanE]]

Note also that some people can give conflicting messages in appearance. Jadrienne walks around in plain black robes, and looks like a weedy, poorly fed elf - she's also a palemaster of not inconsiderable power. It doesn't show.

Another good example is Luagha, who is illiterate and walks around in common clothes. He looks like a commoner - until he melts your brains.

Something like that yes

Hasn't it ever happened to you you were talking to some guy or woman when lateron someone told you he or she is a celebrity or a famous politician or business man? I'm sure that if i were to drop Bill Gates next to my GF in the couch she wouldn't even bother to offer him a drink. She's rather throw him out and curse me for letting that weird nerd in.

I know we are playing in a magical fantasy setting but still i think arcane magic is nothing that radiates or you get a vague feeling of unless the practitioner really wants to radiate or show his power (through clothing, staff or protection aura's, ...)

As far as i know arcane magic is something that is learnt, not gained like the divine powers of a priest. I'd rather believe a priest radiates power even if he doesn't want to than an arcane wizard. Unless ofcourse the wizard has been altered in a physical way and become a magical being like a lich or something.

Just my opinion, and do make something clear, i'll play by any of the DM's rules.

[Significant Owl]

My char likes to cast Bigby's Interposing Hand on people every once in a great while, just stand there at a distance and chuckle. It kinda sucks when someone uses it as an excuse to try killing me while my char is still just standing there doing absolutely nothing. I really wouldn't consider that attacking someone, especially if my char isn't buffed what so ever and/or holding a weapon. It's should be easy to tell the difference if someone is using a spell to harm you or if they're only playing. It's quite lame if the one character can't defend themselves and gets deathplaned before they're able to cast their first spell or pull out a weapon. *slaps forehead* Kinda lame. LOL.

I oughta give peeps a reason to attack my char by casting Bigby's Crushing Hand, deathplane them before they have a fighting chance, stick around for them to return to their corpse and wait for them to buff themselves for a real fight

A giant green hand comes out of nowhere and begins squeezing the life out of you quite hardly, must be unpleasant. I know that I would at least bring your character to bleeding if it was done to me, though probably not DP (Even if it would be IC). Simply throwing around hands now and then because your character can (Or because he/she is "Insane") is what's lame here, IMO.

[Jskee]

If your characters are still breathing, that's all the reason I need to attack!

j/k

My char likes to cast Bigby's Interposing Hand on people every once in a great while, just stand there at a distance and chuckle. It kinda sucks when someone uses it as an excuse to try killing me while my char is still just standing there doing absolutely nothing. I really wouldn't consider that attacking someone, especially if my char isn't buffed what so ever and/or holding a weapon. It's should be easy to tell the difference if someone is using a spell to harm you or if they're only playing. It's quite lame if the one character can't defend themselves and gets deathplaned before they're able to cast their first spell or pull out a weapon. *slaps forehead* Kinda lame. LOL.

I oughta give peeps a reason to attack my char by casting Bigby's Crushing Hand, deathplane them before they have a fighting chance, stick around for them to return to their corpse and wait for them to buff themselves for a real fight

[Lir'ana]

Arcane wrote:

I know we are playing in a magical fantasy setting but still i think arcane magic is nothing that radiates or you get a vague feeling of unless the practitioner really wants to radiate or show his power (through clothing, staff or protection aura's, ...)

As far as i know arcane magic is something that is learnt, not gained like the divine powers of a priest. I'd rather believe a priest radiates power even if he doesn't want to than an arcane wizard. Unless ofcourse the wizard has been altered in a physical way and become a magical being like a lich or something.

Kind of agreed but think that would apply really to lower level mages and wizards. Sorcerer's would definetly raidiat an aura of some kind seeing as how their arcane magic is gained not really learned like a wizard or mage, and I think higher level mages would as well because of how much they have been around magic. Its not really a choice thing is it? A mage/wizard who spends years using and being around magic would surely have some kind of aura just due to there close proximity to it for so long. Kind of like a residue. So maybe that would be something only a magic user could see though. Much like a monk sizing up another monk.

[Xanthalas]

*stands next to another monk and pulls out a measuring tape*

[Gladenfar]

Much like a monk sizing up another monk.

Indeed.. some monks are bigger than others.