CVC Dislike / Like

ghostgurl · Post by **ghostgurl** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:16 am

Yesterday.. Someone put me (Perin) on dislike maybe by accident.. maybe not.. (Perin did not know but he noticed that they where (Red) and in the same Screen.. So... He Cloaked himself and murdered the other Character.. Though now the Other Character is wanting a reason for this ... and waiting for an expaination.. IC wise.. not OOC wise.. So My question is .. If someone else puts you on Dislike, You must defend yourself or run.. I would think.. Cause.. in the Rules it says "You Must put someone on Dislike before attacking.. even if it is a split second prior to the attack". Was Perin in the wrong to defend himself when the other OOC player put Perin on dislike? And..... It stays on Dislike even if he or she switches it back.. ((PLEASE do not Make an OOC Mistake and Want an IC explaination for your actions. )) Is What I think.. Does anyone agree?

zsenf · Post by **zsenf** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:25 am

I'm pretty sure the like/dislike, red/blue circles are OOC info. If someone put you on dislike, your char has no way of knowing. I might put someone on dislike mode just to make some game mechanic thing work. I'm no team member, but we've been through this a lot on Avlis. I think it's the same on all CoPaP worlds.

ghostgurl · Post by **ghostgurl** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:45 am

I just hope this "someone" will Say hey I accidently put you on dislike.. no big deal.. I made sure they did not Death Plane and if they did I would have raised them. And that should be the End of the Story..

Idonia · Post by **Idonia** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:32 am

Red/Blue Hostile/Friendly is OOC info so it's very random IC for your character to have murdered his. I hope you apologize.

ace4lyyfe · Post by **ace4lyyfe** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:39 am

ghostgurl wrote:Yesterday.. Someone put me (Perin) on dislike maybe by accident.. maybe not.. (Perin did not know but he noticed that they where (Red) and in the same Screen.. So... He Cloaked himself and murdered the other Character.. Though now the Other Character is wanting a reason for this ... and waiting for an expaination.. IC wise.. not OOC wise.. So My question is .. If someone else puts you on Dislike, You must defend yourself or run.. I would think.. Cause.. in the Rules it says "You Must put someone on Dislike before attacking.. even if it is a split second prior to the attack". Was Perin in the wrong to defend himself when the other OOC player put Perin on dislike? And..... It stays on Dislike even if he or she switches it back.. ((PLEASE do not Make an OOC Mistake and Want an IC explaination for your actions. )) Is What I think.. Does anyone agree?

If someone sets your character to dislike, it is purely Out Of Character. Perin has no idea that anything has changed, but you on the other hand are bracing yourself for an attack. It would be considered metagaming if you had Perin react only becuase he was set to hostile.

However, I have known some people that would set someone to hostile just to have them react and therefore have an excuse to attack.

Example of that being:

Player 1: oooh, I'm having so much fun doing a beetle quest!

Player 2: oooh!... here's a noob doing a beetle quest! But if he's a noob and I'm an oober pwner, that would be noob killing if I attacked him.

Player 1: *goes about happily oblivious, killing beetles and having a grand time*

Player 2: oh yea! I got an idea! *sets Player 1 to hostile* lets see what the noob does now!

Player 1: *sees Player 2 turn hostile* oh jeez, that 00ber pwn'in flamin sword fighter is gonna smoke me! *drinks a couple potions and attacks player 2*

Player 2: gotcha now! *Smiles to himself as he smites player 1 and loots before running off*

Probably the best thing you could do is apologize to the player and come up with a darn good ic excuse for what happened.

Charina · Post by **Charina** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:59 am

Perin didnt bother to mention the fact that when Charina was attacked, she was in town (Nagritch) selling items with a NPC. It was an accident when I set his character to dislike. As fast as I clicked dislike, I clicked it back to like. Then I was slaughtered from behind (while selling items) might I add, without spoken words between us. Then in return the guards in (Nagritch) arrowed him down. I consider Perin a friend IC, and his apology would be accepted.

ghostgurl · Post by **ghostgurl** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:03 am

Nor did I mention many other things.. Such as CVC you kept playing with Perin through out the night

Charina · Post by **Charina** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:14 am

With you alone Perin? Or our party of six.

ghostgurl · Post by **ghostgurl** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:19 am

I am sorry to argue. I will Perin will apolgise and It will be forgotten...

twohorn · Post by **twohorn** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:08 am

Tip on how to handle Like/Dislike:

Seeing someone glowing "Red" can be treated as that character appearing Hostile/Offensive towards you but not necessarily going to Attack you. (Eg. Hostile looking deers that run away from any PCs who approaches them)

What you can do is probably draw out a weapon or like Ace4lyyfe said "brace yourself" for an attack. And then talk it out ICly like why does he look edgy or something.

CvC does not always mean people dying... Fighting can be done with words as well and i dont mean spellcasting

. This is an RP world, not every "Red" glowing characters (PC/NPC) are trigger happy like in a PvP world.

Game On!

Psye Shaar · Post by **Psye Shaar** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:13 am

Setting hostile in itself is an OOC action - and also a requirement if you intend to initiate any kind of physical CvC (fighting, spells, psionic abilities)

See here

If you're not sure why someone has set you to hostile - they're normally a friend, you've never met them before, etc, etc - then a quick 'tell' to the player will establish if it was a mistake or not. They may not have even realised they'd done it.

If someone sets hostile while there is some obvious conflict between PC's - arguments, misunderstandings, revenge, hatred, etc, etc - then that could be perceived as taking an aggressive stance. It doesn't mean that they are definitely going to attack, just that the tension has effectively risen a level. This may be enough for some to attack under the pretence of 'self defence' - "I thought they were going to kill me, so I just killed them first" - but to the eyes of any witnesses, they are then the person that attacked first.

Every situation will be unique, so as per usual, common sense is a big factor here and any/all hostilities should already be being RP'd accordingly. (Assassinations etc are a different ball-game altogether)

This particular instance is shown to have been via a misunderstanding, so my suggestion would be a lot of IC grovelling for forgiveness from Perin and some kind of random excuse, such as "I thought you were someone else that's attacked me before"

One last point: Under NO circumstances must anyone ever initiate CvC with any PC that is using a merchant/crafting placeable or anything else that would have them caught in any kind of conversation loop.

T'Holoth Shadowborn · Post by **T'Holoth Shadowborn** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:59 pm

Gotta say from a fellow player point of view Perins player was very much in the wrong.

Setting someone to dislike is OOC (like mentioned). Even when your infront of someone and they set you to dislike it's not a prelude to attack. The person simply "dislikes" you. Their hostile towards you. They think your an idiot and their not hiding it. If you attacked the person without meeting them due to being set on hostile thats metagaming, though It's clear you did so put of ignorance (it happens) and not spite.

What I DO think you deserve big props for is comming on the forums and posting your question/situation. You made a mistake, however, now other players can now LEARN from your mistake and create a better playing enviroment in Hala.
It's hard standing infront of anyone and putting yourself out there.
"Hey I think I screwed up. Oh crap I did I appologize".

Well done

Verandis · Post by **Verandis** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:18 pm

One thing to note is that if you set someone to hostile, and they have an animal companion, or summon, or familiar, the companion may attack you because they're autoset to attack anything hostile unless told not to. Please, don't abuse this!

Psye Shaar · Post by **Psye Shaar** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:22 pm

Verandis wrote:One thing to note is that if you set someone to hostile, and they have an animal companion, or summon, or familiar, the companion may attack you because they're autoset to attack anything hostile unless told not to. Please, don't abuse this!

This is one of those annoying things that needs to be dealt with IC'ly if it happens. The simple solution is either to tell the companion/summon to stand it's ground, which ~should~ work, or unsummon them altogether.

ace4lyyfe · Post by **ace4lyyfe** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:32 pm

slightly off topic from the thread, but say a druid has an animal companion and someone is insulting the druid. The druid turns the person to hostile and lets his companion attack the person that was insulting him. Can the animal attacking be blamed on the druid, or can the druid just say "oops, he must not like you." Or is it obvious that the druid ordered the animal to attack the person that was insulting him?

What I DO think you deserve big props for is comming on the forums and posting your question/situation. You made a mistake, however, now other players can now LEARN from your mistake and create a better playing enviroment in Hala.
It's hard standing infront of anyone and putting yourself out there.
"Hey I think I screwed up. Oh crap I did I appologize".

Well done

So if I were to go and kill some noob(not that I ever would) and then loot him, and then I came here and said "I screwed up, my bad" would you say well done? Just curious

silverdragonams · Post by **silverdragonams** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:51 pm

The druid could say anything or give any excuse he wanted. Its up to the character attacked whether to believe him, though most characters with at least some experience know that druids/rangers/mages all have complete control over their companions/familiars. This is probably a good scenario for the Druid to try using his bluff skill.

What I DO think you deserve big props for is comming on the forums and posting your question/situation. You made a mistake, however, now other players can now LEARN from your mistake and create a better playing enviroment in Hala.
It's hard standing infront of anyone and putting yourself out there.
"Hey I think I screwed up. Oh crap I did I appologize".

Well done
So if I were to go and kill some noob(not that I ever would) and then loot him, and then I came here and said "I screwed up, my bad" would you say well done? Just curious

The sad truth is that some people would deny making a mistake or try to hide it. It takes a lot of guts to say "oops" in public.

ace4lyyfe · Post by **ace4lyyfe** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:07 pm

The sad truth is that some people would deny making a mistake or try to hide it. It takes a lot of guts to say "oops" in public.

It would be impossible to hide something I think, and this ain't public, this is a message board which is much less personal than public. However, it was a good idea for Perin/Ghost to fess up to what happened and apologize. Announcing what happened shows that you didn't really have any malicious intent and so you have nothing to hide/notwanttotell.

The druid could say anything or give any excuse he wanted. Its up to the character attacked whether to believe him, though most characters with at least some experience know that druids/rangers/mages all have complete control over their companions/familiars. This is probably a good scenario for the Druid to try using his bluff skill.

Yes, mages/rangers/druids do have control over their companions, but companions can still get out of line, correct? What I was/am trying to say is, is it possible to even make that excuse, or would a animal companion 'never' act out of line or act on something other than the owners will.

Ex:

Bear: *attacks someone*

Someone: *kills bear* hey! you just made your bear attack me!

Owner: No I didn't, he attacked you becuase he didn't like you

Someone: Thats not true! an animal never does anything without it's owner telling him to do it. So you must have told him to do it!

The druid/ranger/mage couldn't even roll a bluff check because it would be impossible for the companion to have acted without the owners consent. So i'm asking, do animal companions ever act out of line? If animal companions never acted out of line, then there would be no room for a bluff check.

T'Holoth Shadowborn · Post by **T'Holoth Shadowborn** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:14 pm

So if I were to go and kill some noob(not that I ever would) and then loot him, and then I came here and said "I screwed up, my bad" would you say well done? Just curious

Are you looking for a serious answer? Because that was a fairly silly question for you to ask me and I 'm pretty sure you're much better than that.

To answer you serious regardless, no I would not say job well done beacause you know better. (Well I *think* you do anyways.)

Ghostgurl clearly didn't understand the dislike/hostile function and make a mistake. You could probably throw in a lot of should haves could haves.

She should have read the rules on it. She could have PMed them and asked if it was an accident.

Mistake aside she learned a lesson and perhaps other players learned something from the mistake as well.

Now before you beg the question and ask me something silly again like do I think people should just do whatever they want then ask about it afterwards, no I don't. I think Ghostgurl deserves recognitition for identifing and appologizing for a mistake thats all.

Shadowstalker74 · Post by **Shadowstalker74** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:18 pm

Wait, what is this strange phrase, "Turning to like/dislike"?

You mean there's a function in NWN that you can turn chars to "dislike" before CvC'ing?

But seriously, sounds like it was just a big misunderstanding and word ta Ghostgurl fer the apology.

ace4lyyfe · Post by **ace4lyyfe** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:25 pm

Now before you beg the question and ask me something silly again like do I think people should just do whatever they want then ask about it afterwards, no I don't. I think Ghostgurl deserves recognitition for identifing and appologizing for a mistake thats all.

Dangit, you beat me to my question!

Wait, what is this strange phrase, "Turning to like/dislike"?

heh heh, in punishment for your sarcasm, i'm gonna sig that.

And true, word ta Ghost for the apology.

silverdragonams · Post by **silverdragonams** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:34 pm

Whether a companion/familiar can act outside it's master's wishes is up to the team, though really the issue is really non-existent. Even if a companion can act without being commanded, the master can always command it to stop.

But you can also always try to make an excuse or try to bluff your way out of it. Just because the character your companion attacked knows that Druids control their companions, it doesn't necessarily mean that character knows that you are a druid or that that particular animal is your companion.

Bear: *attacks someone*

Someone: *kills bear* hey! you just made your bear attack me!

Owner: *Bluf Check* Thats not my bear! The dumb thing has been following me around all day. I think it smells the jerkey in my pack. Maybe you smell like food too?

As for....

It would be impossible to hide something I think,

You would be suprised what people try to get away with...

ace4lyyfe · Post by **ace4lyyfe** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:45 pm

You would be suprised what people try to get away with... Rolling Eyes

point taken

Bear: *attacks someone*

Someone: *kills bear* hey! you just made your bear attack me!

Owner: *Bluf Check* Thats not my bear! The dumb thing has been following me around all day. I think it smells the jerkey in my pack. Maybe you smell like food too?

and yet again, point taken. Good example

Akai · Post by **Akai** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:46 pm

Of course a person does not fully control every action of a pet; who would think that they do? *cough* But do be aware that Nagritch, at least, has a "dangerous dog" law, and an owner failing to control a pet that attacks someone may face charges and the destruction of the pet.

ChukchiDog · Post by **ChukchiDog** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:11 pm

One other point. Setting someone to dislike is a completly OOC action. So I disagree with the idea that you should react to it at all, such as if you are talking face to face with someone and they set you to dislike, you should not assume that means that character is getting agressive or looking hostile to you. You should have to rely on the emotes and on what the character is saying to you to perceive that they are hostile to you. Depending on the character, they could hate your guts and still pretend to love you very convincingly. Often there is no actual change of attitude on th part of the character when a change to hostile occurs; the player has just decided that he might have to fight so is getting ready; the character hated you all along, though; that sort of thing.

That being said, I have no objection to setting someone to hostile in turn when it is seen that someone has set you to hostile. An OOC action in response to an OOC action, NOT an IC action in response to an OOC action. In my case I'd probably be going: "Oh, yeah; good idea; wish I'd remembered to do that earlier; better do it now!"

ChukchiDog · Post by **ChukchiDog** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:20 pm

Err...wait...it does that automatically, doesn't it...

Hala

CVC Dislike / Like

CVC Dislike / Like

Re: CVC Dislike / Like

Charina was character slain.

Bad try to justify.