Questions about languages

[Zombie]

Just wondering how you go about learning a new language. Morgan would like to teach Ro Draconic and I have made an IC post about it, is this the right way to start?

Also, in a conversation in game people were suprised that Morgan can cast spells but dosnt speak a word of Magic.
As a bard, should she know how to speak Magic?

If not then I guess the answer to my first question will help with learning it

[blue wolfy]

i was alwys told bards had "song magic" its not really magic but more like inspiration to raise spirits and stats and such, though they have some near magical effects.

there was a huge stink once in avlis cause someone used bard class to get certain 'magic' feats to unlock a PrC when they didnt consider bards as magic

[Sable]

whilst bards use performance to access magic (they can never cast silently by the PHB), its still magic. In the same way as Sorcs don't study magic theory like a wizard, they access magic more instinctively.

Basically, if the people on Avlis kicked off because bards don't do proper magic, then they need to kick off on Sorcs as well.

But its all magic, just accessed differently. And to my knowledge, the only magic feat bards are barred from is silent spell.

[Tremayne7]

Personally, I do not think bards should speak "magic" because of the way we do our spells. We are not "proper casters" like Wizards or Sorcerers. We tailor our spells through our songs.

[Zombie]

Im in two minds about it myself. I see Morgans magic as an inate ability and she has never studdied at it so there is no reason for her to have learned any more magic than what is required to cast, but that would put her in the same boat as a sorcerer, and they speak magic

As far as bards using music and song, rather than magic I guess that is a question of personal flavour. I would still imagine the spells are cast using arcane words, but would be sung rather than chanted or whatever.

Also, she is not very magicly focused any way. Sure she will be taking more bard lvs and getting more spells, but she hardly ever uses them and generaly ony for fun. She likes to sing and write poems, not cast spells.

Still, if everyone else has it I want it too!

So rather than ask 'Can bards speak magic?' I guess the question is 'If bards speak magic, can Morgan have it too?'

[Akai]

I see my particular bard's magic more in a first edition, jack-of-all-trades way (possibly because I've never played third edition

Soleis studies magic every chance he gets, and he starts out at least by casting spells exactly as he learns them (though he may adapt them later when he's comfortable in his mastery). His bardic casting of cure spells and summon spells is exactly like his divine casting, because that's how he learned them; his legend lore spell is like a wizard's, because he learned it from Adalia; his dimension door spell is sung, because he learned it mostly from watching Aria.

[Eklektikos]

And to my knowledge, the only magic feat bards are barred from is silent spell.

And they're not even barred from that in NWN. Not to mention that at least one of the higher-end bard spells has no verbal component (Ethereal Visage).

My own bard character explains away her magical abilities as being due to inherited sorcerous blood, with her spell selection as limited as it is because she was too distracted by her desire to learn music to study magic in enormous depth. It seems to me that Bard is one of those classes that is relatively open to interpretation - at least in its NWN/CoPaP implementation - which leads to a variety of interesting and plausible approaches to playing it, which I consider to be no bad thing at all.

Therein lieth my two cents, anyway. *relurks*

[Sable]

well, theoretically, since dragon blood is linked to sorcs which is also why Sorc is one of the pre req classes for DD, then since bard is also a pre req class for DD, then they too much have the same gift as sorcs.

Basically, I've always thought that sorcs and bards are very similar on a magical level. Neither studies magic, both access it instictivelty but with different results - but then there is (in thoery, but rarely in practice with NWN since most levels have no-brainer spells) massive difference from one sorc to another since they tend to be instictively drawn to certain effects.

In theory, there is actually very little reason for sorcs to even have a common language, but thats an entirely different subject.

End of the day, by D&D standard only one class truely studies magic, and thats Wizards. Other Arcane classes access magic somehow, but its not by book study.

[Rali'vinee]

Rali'vinee uses her bardic talent to learn language. So I always assumed she learned to cast the spells she knows by hearing others and mimicking them until she got it right. That we choose spells on leveling further supports a conscious decision to learn the spells, albeit that we're limited to how many we can "know".

An aside, funny to me - not on purpose - but when Rali'vinee casts, her voice set is silent. I've never emoted that she's quiet in casting situations and wouldn't, of course. I like not hearing them out of my speakers, though - I would prefer that each spell have different sounds (magic words) coming from the voice sets, and that they don't has always kind of annoyed me when I play my wizzie (Shannen).

[Druid523]

It seems to me that Bard is one of those classes that is relatively open to interpretation - at least in its NWN/CoPaP implementation - which leads to a variety of interesting and plausible approaches to playing it, which I consider to be no bad thing at all.

Ding! Took the words right out of my mouth.

To relate it to psionicists (because that's what I know), just look at the difference between Sceluscio and Alexis. Both are psionicists who have very different "approaches" to learning and using psionics. Regarding the "psion language", too, Alexis has chosen not to use it, since his character has not formally trained in telepathic communication (too, the character has a distaste for mental intrusion). Thus, he also chooses (as a player) not to "hear" mental communications from others.

Just because your character is a psionicist does not mean your character should know this "psionic language". Just because your character is a bard (an arcane casting class) does not mean it makes sense for your character to know this "magic language". When it comes to our characters, not everything should be assumed, otherwise variety and originality will suffer.

[blue wolfy]

for cassie ive always RP'd she has her 'song magic' as a bard, and she heard 'nature's voice' as a druid... but cassie doesnt sing for anyone but her animal freinds, around people she only humms or plays musical instuments. for the 'bard song' feat ive always imagined that more of like an inspriational cheer or cry to get others spirits up for a fight, sometimes maybe something like why they use to have drummer boys in RL wars and such etc., I once even used cassie's 'bard song' when she was in a wolf form to symbolise her giving a beautifly haunting howl to her pack (i was asked not to again so havnt) though i know ALOT of other non singing bards who suddenly in the middle of a fight.. sing... so *shrugs*

though tanaris, now that he cast magic he does it all with silent spell. he has never cast a spell in public. but i would assume unless someone is looking right at him as he does a hand sign they would not know he was a caster. though i noticed the little chat window message to the side that pops up when people cast doesnt mention things like silenced or still.. so its very easy to metagame knowing what people are casting, even if your not near them.

[blue wolfy]

To relate it to psionicists

the hala team basically killed the sole reason for anyone to RP a ghostwise halfling, the telepathy rule for them has been changed so much ive had to alter the way I played Frin several times. The wiki still need changed btw as it still says ghostwise can use the tells for telepathy.

But for Frin she came out speaking solely in teleapathy because of her race and not being exposed to much 'normal' talking. She 'mindspoke' to everyone and would often get mad at those that refused to hear her (sorry lexy). then after the first rule adjustment frin could only mindspeak close close freinds, by then it limited her to seamus, aria, and rali. At this point in time she can only mindspeak with other psions now cause the class gets the language (i asked if the team could give it auto to future ghostwise but not sure what was decided, frin got it anyway cause shes psion). She isnt too close to many psions though she knows a few, so for frin to have anyone to talk to she had to IC 'teach' Seamus to mindspeak/psion language.

it was funny watching the all mighty seamus having to fumble around with words and images trying to communicate with frin, and it left them both with things to work out IC even still now. so even if OOC your granted a language shouldnt mean you automatically know it IC, and sometimes taking the time tp rp out learning it only adds to all our fun.

-
course the other side of that being 'Suki' at this point shes suppose to know at least 6 different languages IC, but ooc im totally clueless on all but common. (nymphspeak, feyspeak, sylvian(sp?), common, elven, dwargen, also breifly studied dragonic cause she was suppose to be in an arkaz plot to help mother an orphaned dragon)

[Tremayne7]

On the flip side of this discussion, Peter is an Aasimar who automatically gets the "Celestial" language. I came up with a background reason why my backwoods nature boy speaks Celestial.

[Akai]

for cassie ive always RP'd she has her 'song magic' as a bard, and she heard 'nature's voice' as a druid... but cassie doesnt sing for anyone but her animal freinds, around people she only humms or plays musical instuments. for the 'bard song' feat ive always imagined that more of like an inspriational cheer or cry to get others spirits up for a fight, sometimes maybe something like why they use to have drummer boys in RL wars and such etc., I once even used cassie's 'bard song' when she was in a wolf form to symbolise her giving a beautifly haunting howl to her pack (i was asked not to again so havnt) though i know ALOT of other non singing bards who suddenly in the middle of a fight.. sing... so *shrugs*

Soleis actually has a specific inspiration song and a specific curse song (also a specific turn undead song!) The problem is there's never time to type them out in combat! (For awhile I had them on quickslots, but at one phrase to a quickslot, that took up pretty much my entire quickslot allowance!)

[Rudiki]

Regarding ghostwise Halflings getting the "Psion" "language", I believe I recall Arkon posting that he weighed the arguments and decided they should get it; correct me if I'm wrong.

I expect Lexy will learn it IG as he's specialized in Telepathy and wants to learn to communicate that way at need. He'll be better at sending, but it is instinct for him to block out such things; "don't allow" is his natural default, so he'll have to be actively concentrating on being receptive in order to "hear" it, except in special circumstances.

[ChukchiDog]

As a Ranger, Gildan has the "Animal" language. For him, I play it that this represents his understanding of how animals (particularly certain kinds of animals) think, and his ability to correctly interperet their vocalizations and movements.

So it's easy to use it for simple stuff like "Hello!" or "I'm Hungry", or "I'm frightened of that because it's weird" or "Show me the good hunting grounds", but it gets a bit harder for me to rationalize when complex concepts are being discussed.

Plus, each kind of animal has it's own "language"; I.E. set of vocalizations and gestures, and Gildan isn't expert at all of them. For the animal "language" to really work as a language, it's got to have a magical component to it, I'd think.

Right now when I hear people speaking Animal IC I have to decide on a case-by-case basis whether or not Gil understands it.